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View Poll Results: Which Form of nest changes do you prefer

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  • Current One (as of Jan 9th 2020)

    35 29.17%
  • Three Second Delay after Nesting

    9 7.50%
  • No Delay (original)

    72 60.00%
  • None of the others

    4 3.33%
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Thread: Nesting Gameplay 2020 Discussion

  1. #11
    Whitelisted Predator Audi_Gzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IMMASPACENINJA View Post
    Apparently the nesting process is MUCH longer now, which is good

    The problem is that carrier still exists
    you will only get nested if theres like a gang of spitters or a sentinel constantly neuro'ing you or a warrior. Its like a 10 second process so yeah combat nesting isn't a thing.

    I do agree carriers need to also have a windup on applying facehuggers and shit like that needs to be made more harder. Probably like a five second windup or 6.
    Combat hugging just needs to be instantly snapped for one more final time. Multibursts should also be removed as well too. I'll prolly make a gitlab since nobody is gitlabbing shit like that. Most of the community is just crying like babies and pissing their pants when it was aids for both sides.

    Cause ya loved getting instantly neuro'd or instantly grabbed by a warrior or a spitter right. Yeah quirky fun nest breakouts. Lmfao used to see so much salt coming from that shit when I would guard nests as a warrior.
    Last edited by Audi_Gzz; 01-10-2020 at 07:29 AM.

  2. #12
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    I see nobody is willing to point out the elephant in the room, which is that the entire facehugging->bursting gameplay element is a shit mechanic that will never not be shit, and the design tweaks that it has gotten recently are the equivalent of polishing a turd. We can get into a discussion of how much agency should a nested player have, how many Xenos should be devoted to the xenos equivalent of FOB duty, how many larva should burst out of half a dozen baldie retards when they effectively throw the match in favor of xenos by wandering out of the FOB and getting capped an hour into the round, how to make the carrier less aids etc, but no matter how much you shine it up, hugging and bursting will always be a lump of poo.

    Spicy take - tell the person doing the new xenos sprites to hurry up and get them in a semi-polished condition, get Cakey or whoever to finally release the Structures update, and then jettison the entirety of xenos lore and the facehugging+nesting+bursting system, and have the new non-IP-infringing xenos fuel their replacements entirely off permadead bodies, which become draggable only once permadead. Then balance the game so that turning bodies into more xenos is a significant but not overwhelming bonus for having good map control over an area where xenos inflicted casualties over marines, instead of a braindead easy way of turning a guarenteed xenos loss into a boring 40 minute hour stall and then 40 xenos coming up on the Alamo because each fuckwit marine who gets capped gives 1-4 xenos, who eventually become worth 3-12 marines once they and the other xenos who use the extra t2/t3 slots they provided get the chance to mature. This way, we don't have to have a discussion about how to balance between making xenos miserable by having them guard captures who will kill themselves and possibly take a couple of xenos with them given half a chance, and making marines miserable by having the last 5 minutes of their round be spent tied up in a pitch black resin box with nothing but the sounds of resin doors opening, the comms chatter of other marines actually having fun, and an aching sensation in their stomach to keep them company.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by havokman View Post
    /snip.
    I think something like this could work except you have to figure out how to fix marines permadying because if xenos can never drag a marine until they are permadead then they will only permanently kill marines when they push and take over an area. Any other scenario and marines will always be revived.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by havokman View Post
    snip.
    For the love of god, this would not bode well. Not simply because of the monumental task of effectively rewriting all the roles of xenos and their base hive layout, including the queen serving little purpose other than a tank and coordinator, but it would also put off a lot of people who have come to play an "Alien inspired" game.

    The only logical thing to do to compensate for this, as in keeping th current non breakout, is by removing multi bursts, removing combat throwing/hugging, removing carriers and the ability to "eat" humans, and I wonder if it would be at all possible to ensure that eggs can only be placed in safe zones of the xeno side. I would prefer to follow the lore side mentality of the Aliens by thinking of their eggs as some precious thing that the combat forms would throw their lives away for, until they hatched, and as such would not just put them at the front lines. Also, I wonder if it would be viable to drag people through pipes and vents/tunnels, make it necessary for marines to go out together, and punish incompetent rambos. It's similar to eating someone I suppose, but at least you know where it can happen and makes logical sense, but it should take a little more time than a xeno going through it alone. Perhaps not more time to go in it, but a timer to get to the other side. Additionally, would it be workable to have the huggers move? To compensate for the the amendments I have considered, the lunge range would likely need be extended.

    All of this would mean that for someone to be hugged, they would have to be dragged back to the hive itself or another SAFE zone to be infected, possibly being dragged at a faster pace by the larger forms. And as this would take more time, the effort put in should ensure that the person cannot escape alone. If someone has the mentality that this is purposefully ruining a game for someone, think that if they managed to get you to the hive, they could have just as well killed you and made you non relivable so your game would have ended anyway.

    EDIT: I have now experience the joys of being combat hugged on the front lines by a carrier and then "eaten" almost immediately after and taken a long distance back to the hive. This aint gonna work unless you change something on the xeno side. Also, the time it takes for you to burst is not nearly as long as it should be to give an ounce of justification.
    Last edited by Mr-Herr-San; 01-10-2020 at 12:39 PM.

  5. #15
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    Pushing this update without fixing other things around it (eggs, warrior grabs) makes this update pretty cancerous.

    Doesn't matter if it takes 10 seconds to nest if your knocked out for 2 minutes by huggers from a lucky disarm then combat hug, and also doesn't matter if it takes 10 seconds to nest if you can't resist the entire time because warrior grab is broken and essentially unresistable.

    TL;DR Good idea in theory, shit execution as usual. And I say this as someone who hates nests; nest guarding on the xeno side is shitty, and most people go SSD in nests if captured due to current nest mechanics and the one autistic sentinel that spends 2 hours of his life camping nests.

  6. #16
    Dev Team
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    Quote Originally Posted by havokman View Post
    I see nobody is willing to point out the elephant in the room, which is that the entire facehugging->bursting gameplay element is a shit mechanic that will never not be shit, and the design tweaks that it has gotten recently are the equivalent of polishing a turd. We can get into a discussion of how much agency should a nested player have, how many Xenos should be devoted to the xenos equivalent of FOB duty, how many larva should burst out of half a dozen baldie retards when they effectively throw the match in favor of xenos by wandering out of the FOB and getting capped an hour into the round, how to make the carrier less aids etc, but no matter how much you shine it up, hugging and bursting will always be a lump of poo.

    Spicy take - tell the person doing the new xenos sprites to hurry up and get them in a semi-polished condition, get Cakey or whoever to finally release the Structures update, and then jettison the entirety of xenos lore and the facehugging+nesting+bursting system, and have the new non-IP-infringing xenos fuel their replacements entirely off permadead bodies, which become draggable only once permadead. Then balance the game so that turning bodies into more xenos is a significant but not overwhelming bonus for having good map control over an area where xenos inflicted casualties over marines, instead of a braindead easy way of turning a guarenteed xenos loss into a boring 40 minute hour stall and then 40 xenos coming up on the Alamo because each fuckwit marine who gets capped gives 1-4 xenos, who eventually become worth 3-12 marines once they and the other xenos who use the extra t2/t3 slots they provided get the chance to mature. This way, we don't have to have a discussion about how to balance between making xenos miserable by having them guard captures who will kill themselves and possibly take a couple of xenos with them given half a chance, and making marines miserable by having the last 5 minutes of their round be spent tied up in a pitch black resin box with nothing but the sounds of resin doors opening, the comms chatter of other marines actually having fun, and an aching sensation in their stomach to keep them company.
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Ah, I see you are a man of culture as well.

  7. #17
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    The whole nest guarding mechanic is ten times as autistic as guarding the FOB. It's like Almayer duty with almost zero reason or context to roleplay. So getting rid of it sounds good to me, even if it's at the expense of very rare gameplay moments for Marines. Generally speaking, I would say that the only way you can get unnested would be to get rescued (Which should automatically unghost you of course, and delay the egg timer). There's too much jankiness otherwise to make it worth subjecting a part of the player base to sentinal duty.

    I don't mind the facehugger mechanic in general, but it still needs some work. The long stun is fine because it's largely contestable through good Marine teamwork (Drag your guys off the front lines ffs, stop being bald), but the game could use better methods of actually extracting the eggs without having to return to the Almayer. That's frankly the biggest issue with facehugger combat in general--It's a quick, sometimes nearly unavoidable ambush that results in 15-20 minutes of downtime for the marine, constrasting with a series of combat maneuvers that would usually prompt critical injuries requiring extraction, and a more robust gameplay loop for Medics, at least. The punishment for marines does not match the severity of their mistake imo, and it means you feel a bit ripped off when you have to return to the Almayer for something that's about as preventable as being neuro'd once.

  8. #18
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    Nest guarding wasn't fun, escaping from the nest wasn't fun, nothing about nests was fun.

    Let me use a recent example, during the full auto test round I captured an SG as a warrior, infected, nested and hung back to guard them. They were at full health, and we spent about 10 minutes of me watching him, opening the door, using lunge, and then renesting him. Each time he escaped I put him back in the nest before the 3 second stun was up.


    Neither of us had any fun for those 10 minutes, his whole experience was hitting resist, waiting, hitting resist again and then being renested immediately. My experience was watching him, opening the door, middle clicking on his sprite while he couldn't move, and then dragging his sprite to the nest before stepping back and closing the door.

    It's not fun, it's not enjoyable or engaging gameplay. Anyone saying 'but X isn't fun either' should be coming up with a suggestion for removing whatever that thing is, instead of saying we need more unfun things in the game. 90% of people who got captured died, so the outcome for the player is the same regardless the only difference is how much of their life they waste purely out of spite trying to kill themselves or a bunch of young/SSD xenos in the hive. If you're nested and infected you were never going to escape anyway. Guarding isn't fun either, 'it's something to do when young' some xenos say, so is watching paint dry. "It makes sentinels pointless", firstly warriors are the true nest guards, secondly nest guarding is a task for specific xenos not a whole caste, thirdly sents are OP because of air burst not having nests to guard is just an improvement.

    Before they made mobs that had ghosted clearly identified as such you'd even see people close their client and then log back on in the hopes xenos would assume they're SSD and not bother guarding them. Escapable nests encouraged the worst type of play.

    This is just like when they removed body dragging. After a few marine mains complained for long enough devs removed it, xeno mains bitched and moaned about it, but in the end it stayed in the game because it was a definite improvement for the game. This is the same, marine mains will bitch and moan about it but in the end it's an improvement and it'll stay in.

  9. #19
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    Capturing as a crusher is awesome now, you stun for so long you can easily devour while being shot and once you've devoured a marine they're fucked. This was a big xeno buff.

  10. #20
    Senior Member AlbertBlackwell's Avatar
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    still confirms devs are xeno mains.
    Chaotic puppet-master from hell

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