User Tag List

Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: CM 2020 - A Retroactive Look

  1. #1
    Senior Member Cakey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    161
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Post CM 2020 - A Retroactive Look

    As posted on discord, for all you forum dwellers.

    Hey all. I wrote a few paragraphs to express my personal view on our recent development progress, and felt it was appropriate to share with all of you. We have a lot of big changes on the horizon, and a lot of uncertainty on what specifically is going on. This will outline what and where I believe we should strive towards in terms of CM-2020. Some of you may love it or hate it, and you are very welcome to drop into my DMs and tell me why we should revert to CM-2017 (No really, feel free to give me your opinions on recent dev changes)

    Objective Gameplay
    Since this is our primary goal/focus right now, I want to share what I think is the correct way forwards for objective gameplay. Control points is our first step towards this issue, however I feel that to keep with some sense of roleplay as well as the mechanical aspects of the core SS13 culture we should have capture points be pseudo control areas. They should not have fake progress bars or something that doesn't actually have true player involvement. Capture points should be points of interest on the map that require both factions to build something, gather something, or destroy/defend something, and their locations should be laid out in a MOBA-esque style with LANES that both factions have to continue applying pressure to, with the amount of lanes based on player pop and map size.

    Vehicles
    Some people in public have expressed their opinion that the current power of the new vehicles testing is underwhelming. I personally don't want to see vehicles becoming the centre of attention again like the tank was, and they shouldn't be strong. I personally expect trucks and APCs to fall in line as logistical transport vehicles for FOB/frontline movement without getting hit by lurkers. Tanks would fill their current purpose at a weaker state with the change that restricts them from firing in a space around them (I really think this will impact their solo capabilities a lot in a good direction). If people are worried about how much of an impact they'll be, then worry no more.
    Also I'd like to at some point introduce survivor vehicles that start destroyed around certain maps for people to repair. That's a stretch goal.

    My Involvement in all this
    Yes, I've been burnt out since Christmas. I haven't felt that well personally and it's mostly due to my real life situation. I love this project to no end and I want to continue working on it as much as I can, but I need to spend time working on my job prospects so that I can think about getting out of this shithole of a country. But until then I'm stuck here working for you lot.
    Once I have the time and motivation here's what you can expect from myself and my fellow devs:
    - Testing for Xeno Special Structures V2, FOB structures, Resource nodes and Objective gameplay testing to begin in about a week and a half's time. Once tweaked based on test results this will roll out into master. This will be our first step towards Objective based gameplay, which is our current primary dev team goal.
    - Assist Atebite in rolling out vehicles. They'll hopefully refresh the current staleness that is tank gameplay.
    After this I'll most likely be taking a more laid back position for a few months, but with all of what I said above I want to aid and implement the topics above if they are agreed upon.

    As a footnote; I want to thank all of you that have spent the time bringing up issues with the newly implemented timelock system. I'm aware there are some reported issues with tracking and saving, and I'm doing what I can to try and put the pieces together for an eventual fix. I can only ask that you sit tight while I figure out what the issues are with the motivation I have right now.
    Finally, SEA will be coming to moderators soon.

    I'd genuinely like to see what people think of the direction forward, and will take on board what any of you have to say regardless of opinion.

    Thanks for your attention.
    Last edited by Cakey; 01-13-2020 at 06:13 PM.
    Welcome to the Cakey corner, baby




  2. #2
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,410
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cakey View Post

    Weapon Rework
    People have mentioned that the current weapons are imbalanced and the variance of selected loadouts has dropped significantly. I see this as a two-sided issue caused by two problems.
    Problem one is the lack of categorization of which weapons fit what niche. There's no hard defined purposes for each gun and they need to be put into their respective categories PROPERLY with documentation to back that. I personally feel that the main four weapons (M41, M39, M37, L42) should be split up into range groups that are a lot more closely knit. We NEED a weapon effective range (which would require a new system of minimum effective ranges to pair with the current damage falloff range value). M39s should be most effective within three tiles, M41s should be most effective between three to six tiles, and L42s should be most effective beyond six tiles, with each weapon's effectiveness TAPERING off rather than hard capping. M37 should be an allrounder with less DPS than all weapons, with the flexibility to fit all ranges with different ammo. All sub weapons should fit their parent primary (https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...40/unknown.png)
    This issue is hard to solve without developer tools, and we REALLY need a way of plotting out calculated DPS, and values into some form of graphs. I proposed a web app tool to do this using exported value data but it'd be a while before I can look at doing this.
    Problem two is our current method of hit detection. Accuracy and miss/dodge chances account for a lot of combat RNG that we really shouldn't have to be dealing with. I strongly feel that projectiles need to be hitbox-based and mobs need to be redefine with bigger-than/smaller-than tile hitboxes based on caste/race/species (this is byond-native supported using bounds which aren't directly tied to sprites). This would require removing hit chances in favor of stronger spread/accuracy, and this is something we should act on SOON.
    DPS depending on how close and how far is the target from "effective" range is just a very bad idea. With speed that allows even heavy armor marine to cross whole screen in less than 3 seconds it's simply bad. Everything outside buckshot and flechette should have effective range of atleast whole screen.
    Weapons should be more specialised, but they should go different directions.
    M39 should be the "Run and Gun" of the group. The most accurate while running, fastest to draw, fairly fast to shoot.
    Pulse Carabine should be a proper sniper rifle, otherwise it has no use. Special marine-vendor 4x scope that grants the weapon IFF when peering trough it. I would even argue for changing it into fully fledged bolt-action rifle.
    Pulse Rifle should be something closer to LMG. Suppresion from hail of bullets that really hurts should be a standard among most marines. Good DMG, decent Accuracy and decent Firerate at the cost of slower movement and such.
    Shotgun is in pretty good spot. Slugs and untility, Buckshot for pure DMG, Flechette for some Frankenstein of AP and buckshot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cakey View Post

    Vehicles
    Some people in public have expressed their opinion that the current power of the new vehicles testing is underwhelming. I personally don't want to see vehicles becoming the centre of attention again like the tank was, and they shouldn't be strong. I personally expect trucks and APCs to fall in line as logistical transport vehicles for FOB/frontline movement without getting hit by lurkers. Tanks would fill their current purpose at a weaker state with the change that restricts them from firing in a space around them (I really think this will impact their solo capabilities a lot in a good direction). If people are worried about how much of an impact they'll be, then worry no more.
    Also I'd like to at some point introduce survivor vehicles that start destroyed around certain maps for people to repair. That's a stretch goal.
    Trucks have to be atleast somehow customisable with jury-rigged spikes and additional armor (like soldiers were doing with their Humvees) and such. THEY MUST BE FASTER THAN PIJAMA MARINE RUNNING.
    REDEMPTION

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    296
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Sounds great, keep up the good work (at a reasonable pace) Cakey!

    I have high hopes for the objective gameplay.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Casada_Radio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    294
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Commitment is great but burnout is a pain. Take it easy my man. You can come back working on June in my opinion.
    Main: Yuri Gennady Gregorovich

    Others:
    Amare Babatunde Jabari
    Go Mei Sin
    Wilson Alfred Longshanks
    Francois Babineux




    Spoiler Spoiler:


    C, C++, C#, CSS, C*, and C-- are the same. Dont let anyone fool ya

  5. #5
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    28
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't think to have damage based on the range is a horrible idea, a lot of combat in this game is already managing distance. Another thing that may help with weapon balancing is to get rid of AP ammo and Xeno armor so you can have consistent DPS/TTK numbers for all the weapons.
    Last edited by jjia; 01-22-2020 at 05:30 AM.

  6. #6
    Dev Team UnwaveringGrey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Posts
    130
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've tried wording this a few ways in my head since CABAL mentioned the weapon ranges rework idea. I was trying to find a funny or poignant way to put it, but I'll just be blunt. I don't like the idea of weapon ranges working like that. The part of me that enjoys some small semblance of realism screams at the idea of smg bullets just stopping at nine meters. More importantly, it just doesn't seem like it would be a fun gameplay mechanic.

    I love all of the other changes mentioned though!
    Last edited by UnwaveringGrey; 04-22-2020 at 07:30 AM. Reason: I spotted a typo months after I originally posted this...
    Typically plays: Adan Perez - A Charlie marine. Otherwise playing DZ-###-Y, the runner that's running around spinning like a 6 year old on a sugar high.

  7. #7
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2020
    Posts
    2
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    As a footnote; I want to thank all of you that have spent the time bringing up issues with the newly implemented timelock system. I'm aware there are some reported issues with tracking and saving, and I'm doing what I can to try and put the pieces together for an eventual fix. I can only ask that you sit tight while I figure out what the issues are with the motivation I have right now.
    Finally, SEA will be coming to moderators soon.
    Some feedback from a new player. I don't mind and actually like the Timelock feature. And I'm glad to see the time tracking is a known issue. I kept thinking I had to "stay alive" for longer than 3 hours in a single round. Which is hard, because death comes easy and sometimes rounds don't last 3 hours. The best I've done so far is 2 hours and average around 1-1.5 hours. But each round when I check the role preferences, I'm reset back to 3 hours. It was beginning to feel like I'd never be able to be anything other than a PVT.

    I'm really enjoying the game, the community (I like being a Grape), and I value all the hard work done by everyone who makes this happen! Thank you.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2020
    Posts
    1
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think what you guys made with the current engine is quite great, your success speak for itself, with so many players concurrently involved at the same time, but, I feel I must ask the following question.

    If you dont use many of the features of the humanoids mobs ss13 was built for, why dont simplify them, or even remove those? I imagine that the life process on CM has the same tendency to overshadow everything else in terms of use, and optimization on this point should be a priority, if not a focus. I understand that the effort would be considerable since everything is based around it, but how many things are really needed in the system as it stands? Is there a plan to tackle this issue?

    I am not aware if the current CM iteration still follows the organs system, looks like it does, but if so, what people need livers, eyes, appendix for? why do you need the option to be able to remove the arm of a pale guy and reuse it on a tanned one? I mean, I understand its good for immersion and everything, but its harsh for the server, apply the magnitude you have here and you get lag.

    So what I am saying is this, game-play wise the marine has two states for a hand, either is there or not, but with the current system you got a mob that is formed of the sum of each individual part and then each is rendered an individual color and then that is rendered many times over, which then is applied clothes, blood, and a hell lot of other layers on top... which is great for when you have 30 of them and you want them detailed, but you have easy five times more than that on the high pop rounds, if not more, so, I don't think its an easy problem, given that you would need to think long and hard how to approach this, but a simplification of mobs might be something worth of pouring resources into, since it would reduce lag, and thus increase the quality of the game, and it might even result in a decrease of the servers cost.

  9. #9
    Whitelisted Captain BatHoovyDood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    73
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Trucks have to be atleast somehow customisable with jury-rigged spikes and additional armor (like soldiers were doing with their Humvees) and such. THEY MUST BE FASTER THAN PIJAMA MARINE RUNNING.
    So much this. Trucks need to be in the opposite end of tanks, with Tanks being strong combat vehicles, trucks being fast movers with limited armor, and APCs landing between. Maybe a gunners seat with like an HPR set up or an M6, but this should only serve as a way to suppress the bugs, not be a two man army.
    - Squad Leader Charles 'Boston' Enderly (and overconfident CO)

    (Probably already dead)



    - June 4, 2189

  10. #10
    Member DekoToast's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    91
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Cakey, only creator of half-decent ideas, and the wold's second most burned out man. But fr tho, keep up the good work, I can't wait to see how this game changes in the future.
    Rain 'Hail' Atkinson (Human Roles): Slayer of Xenos and babysitter of PFCs
    Medals
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    NV-XXX-C6 (Xeno Roles): CRUSHER GANG CRUSHER GANG

    Whitelisted Monkey Damn You Boomermin, the Monkeys will rise again

    Spoiler Spoiler:

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •