Maybe we can change that? Have HEFA slow down xenos for X amount of time while the shrapnel is dissolved by their acid blood.Originally Posted by Just L
Maybe we can change that? Have HEFA slow down xenos for X amount of time while the shrapnel is dissolved by their acid blood.
HEFA needs to bypass xeno armor or deal extra damage to xenos that it doesn't do to marines.
Xenos having a shitload of HP that marines don't have is the reason why HEFA does nothing to them. This should be correctly seen as a balance oversight and damage to xenos specifically needs to be adjusted upwards so that the grenades are actually deadly.
Any xeno taking 2-3 hefa's in a close proximity of ~4 tiles should be DEAD. Full Stop.
A single HEFA should be "oh fuck" the way HEDP is. Not "lmao imma just ignore this". I fucking HATE that this has been such a blatant balance oversight for so fucking long and nobody on the dev team has had any mind to actually correct it. Either remove the fucking HEFA's or make them functional, stop leaving this shit in a dysfunctional broken state where its only purpose is to fuck over the players using them.
Won't get that. Acid beno tears would melt the floor, thus venting whole planet, zuccking everyone into spess. Any slowdown mechanic is meet with anger and tears.
HEFA nades should be reserved for HEFA KNIGHTS in events only.
Removing HEFA from normal rounds would be a great Marine buff.
Everyone knows HEDP is the superior nade.
Untill removal, wear heavy armor and bind "rest". No other tip I can give. You can't really dodge baldies.
Also I have a question: Did anybody ever uses that special "overhead" throw? It was supposed to reduce FF, but it seems it's exactly like with walking that doesn't make you immune to FF. 4 tile range on that throw is still in range of HEDP and HEFA so what is the point? In the scenario where you should use it, marine is only 3 tiles from the explosion tile, useless.
Agreed, it just feels stupid to bother with the overhead throwing mechanic because the only practical use is tossing it over barricades from the second line behind someone who's shooting, and at that range it would just nade the cade.
Overall, I hate to see HEFA go, so imma make a suggestion that I think will at least extend the lifespan until a point where it actually functions as a weapon instead of a resin removal tool.
There's really no reason for the high throw to have a 4 tile limit. It already has a deploy delay on it that makes it riskier to use, and reasonable speaking a solder should be able to throw a grenade without hitting his friend in the back of the head.
Last edited by PogoMarimo; 01-17-2020 at 09:52 PM.
the problem with HEFA is that it's inherently impossible to balance in its current state
Let's look at how this game actually works: xenos recover from damage rather quickly, and take no penalties from having lowered health. Thus, dealing damage to a xeno that does not result in a kill is of very limited usefulness. In order to kill a xeno, you need to hit it with massive burst damage to kill it immediately outright, or do continuous damage over time while stunning it/chasing it down to prevent it from escaping and healing. For the former, we have buckshot, rockets, and blue flame. For the latter we have rifles, SMGs, HEDPs, rockets again and fire. These are all, if not currently balanced, then very much possible to balance.
Now let's look at what a HEFA is: it's a commonly available grenade that deals damage and does nothing else. It's a PFC usable AOE burst damage tool, and that's why it's impossible to balance. Because it is a massive AOE that deals damage but does not stun, it's impossible for it to act as part of continuous damage because the marines have to stop and take cover or it will shred them. Thus, it exists only to deal burst damage. If it deals enough damage to kill or almost kill xenos in one shot, then it's broken: every PFC will carry them and spam them out all the time, and all xenos will be pureed by an endless shrapnel blender. If, as in its current state, it does not deal extreme damage to xenos, then it's useless: xenos either ignore it or, in the best case scenario, tank its damage and then leave to go heal. The risk of FF is enormous, and the payoff is pathetic. There is actually no way to fix this: burst damage is very much an all or nothing proposition. All of the other burst damage tools in the marine arsenal are either situational(buckshot/flechettes require the marine to be at very close range to deploy them effectively and can only deal burst damage to one xeno at a time), or limited in supply(there is only one demospec, PFCs can't use the RPG). The HEFA is the only one which could simply be carried by every PFC and thrown out to mulch entire hives, which is why it is necessarily terrible. It is conceptually impossible to reconcile the concept with how this game works.
Thus, in order for HEFAs to become useful without becoming overpowered, they have to be in some way changed from what they are now. Either by adding some useful effect other than just burst damage(dazing/slowing xenos, etc.), greatly reducing their AOE so that they can be applied as part of a continuous damage strategy, or limiting their supply to just the B18/possibly Grenadier PFCs. Then they could be made powerful without being overpowered.
The person who implemented it overnerfed it and didn't think through how people actually play.
It's functionally useless. Just the windup time alone is more than enough debuff, no need for shorter range - particularly since, if you have to use an overhead throw you're already behind other people and need as much range as possible. It really really really really was not thought through AT ALL. It's another one of those things that should be changed, it's common sense to change it, wouldn't take more than 5 minutes to fix, and will stay broken/useless for literal fucking months or possibly forever.
HEFA is really, really simply to balance.
Just make it shred armor hardcore like flechettes.
At least it would be a bit useful then, instead of just existing to gib marines.
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