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Thread: Snooper44 - Rule 15 - Military Police

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    Snooper44 - Rule 15 - Military Police

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    420M.Y.K

    Date of Incident
    January 17, 2020

    Your Character Name?
    Alice 'Snow' Falkner

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Snooper44

    Accused Character Name
    Greg Lauffer

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    9:24PM C-UST

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 15 - Military Police

    Description of the incident:
    As i was doing some stuff for medbay, (making and servicing a medbot and oxybot) i had an MP Connor anderson come upto being friendly and went to go for a high five. i had both hands full and dropped a backpack which i forgot had some contraband in it. Anderson instantly picks the bag up and starts searching through it finding the contraband (An illegal search not following SOP either really but thats more of a my stupidity thing). At this point CMP and two MPs have me surrounded. I drop a smoke grenade and run because i dont feel like being arrested and brigged because one snake decides to be cheeky so i decide to have some fun with my round before the inevitable. I play cat and mouse with the MPs for abit all while lauffers prattling on over coms about how he wants them to put it to blue alert so he can use his fists etc etc. After awhile MPs track me down (via a cam i disabled while waiting for the normandy i believe) and connor manages to taze me and arrest me. All fine and dandy by this point. I get brought to brig and with some RP and CMO doing medical stuff to me i manage to get free (still in brig and locked in because of shutter doors) I decide to have one more run around before the already impending perma that was discussed (not warranted for the crimes til this point as my charges hadnt exceeded an hour). At this point Greg has rejoined us and pulls out his pepperspray and proceeds to absolutely drench the room trying to effect me with it (gas mask) after awhile a tazer hits me from connor who again continues with the arrest procedure properly. Asides from not ever actually reading my charges to me or calculating the times properly for my crimes to see if they warrant perma. He strips and redresses me places me in perma and puts me on the bed flashing me and uncuffing me. Its at this point greg walks upto the perma doors and trys spraying me with pepperspray whilst im still tied to the bed under effects of flash. the spray misses because of range so he takes another step forward to ensure the next spray hits and tags me with it before leaving. Connor watched me for a little while before i assume being tagged out by greg to watch me. After a few minutes and some talking between us greg leaves again not to return. I end up killing myself because hey im in perma, havent been given a time or chance to appeal or anything.

    All in all alot of SOP was broken by the MPs this round. Including a few ML breaks (assault, NOD, Failure to follow procedure).

    Lauffer ill say this to you personally now, Your RP is cool, the over the top bravado and long monologues are quirky and can be fun. But it dosent make up for piss poor play, sportmanship and not being able to follow the rules. Nothing personal dude

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    Logs should show, i didnt get screenshots sorry

    How you would punish the accused:
    Honestly a heavy warning at best an appealable Jban for MP and CMP at worst for lauffer. He showed nothing but an intent to want to harm something that round with his talks of wanting to use his fists etc, he abused a prisoner who was arrested and under control from another officer. He made a direct point of making sure he got the last say when his spraying didnt work. Someone like that dosent need to have access to the role that can essentially be a non staff staff member.

  2. #2
    Whitelisted Captain/Retired WL Maintainer Snooper44's Avatar
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    I am generally surprised this is being reported, truthfully I did not expect this and I did not see myself as doing anything wrong. I know well what is in the bounds of an MP having played the role for quite some time and not have accumulated any notes concerning the role since my entering into the server. I do apologize if you felt otherwise as I seek to RP the way I do for greater immersion of CM13 that is fun for myself and everyone. However I can fully justify my actions accordingly.

    Greg Lauffer is a known war hero, during his early days he personally trained under various monks and gurus to master over eight different forms of karate and other mixed martial arts in the field prior to his first deployments as he is well aware even as an officer of the law that there can be a time his weapon can be knocked from his hands and therefore it was vital he strengthen something that could not be taken from him, his body. By this standard his fists and legs have been designated by USCM as 'weapons' so to speak which as I SPECIFICALLY said during the search for you that they can be used 'LETHALLY AND OR NON-LETHALLY' if the situation calls for it. Understand that you misinterpreted my character's intent as he simply was stating depending on how you responded (as you were still on the run with reported contraband, I was unaware if you were armed or not) had you possessed a gun and were willing to shoot anyone who came after you he would have had to snap your neck like a fast-food bendy straw. But, if you were unarmed and simply using a stunprod (which you were) he would simply need to take a strike at your windpipe to cut off your oxygen circulation long enough to render you unconscious in order to capture and arrest you with none being harmed, as is his job which he takes very seriously. Luckily however a different Officer caught you. I did not say I wanted to beat you to death with my fists, the logs can prove this otherwise.

    Regarding the use of Peperspray, gas masks are purely cosmetic now to my knowledge besides against tear gas. They do not protect against pepperspray. I had chosen to use it as an alternative to a flash as I witnessed you running around the brig after escaping from the hands of Anderson, it does no actual permanent damage and you were hit with it once on the ground.

    Finally, when you had been brought to the cells you had your handcuffs removed and were flashed, my character being a lawful officer always believes its best to do a quick scan of the interior of the room prior to leaving you within as in perma you are not always watched and it is important to ensure nothing you could use to harm yourself was within, however I reconsidered at the last moment as you seemed stable and decent so therefore I backed off and left most of the items, including the chair which you ironically later used to suicide with. In order to keep you down I shot you with one hit of pepperspray which again, is non-lethal. I did not spam it on you many times like I have seen other not so lawful officers do in the past. Also regarding you being left in your cell without an appeal, I did not leave you. When the shutters were closed I reopened them and stood by you for a lengthy time until my superior CMP William Jester Crimson informed me I could leave you alone and help pull wounded on and off the Alamo as we needed hands for this. I also must mention you had a radio but did not mention anything regarding wanting an appeal. It is within your right to ask for one, I do not do it for you.

    Just so you are aware I also have nothing against you and I take no offense to this report. You saw an injustice and desired to report it which I respect but I believe you may be a bit wrong on how you interpreted some actions. I am hopeful this can be cleared up.


    Commodore Greg Lauffer



    Whitelist Maintainer

    January 1st 2021 - June 28th 2021

  3. #3
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Hi, I was the Acting Commander and the CMP this round, yes, that very rare little mix.


    I can confirm your charges exceeded perma after you were aprehended, and this is why.


    You commit the follow crimes in what I specificed to be seperate incidents.


    Damage to government property
    Assault
    Contraband
    Neglect of duty
    Resisting arrest (Which I could see being merged with your NoD charge)

    Contraband alone, if I decided to see this exceedingly long cat and mouse game as a singular incident, is enough to have you placed in isolation. It is EXTREMELY rare for someone to even be charged with multiple crimes, but this was, as stated, an extended incident.

    Now, I cannot personally attest to the moment you were specifically caught and arrested, nor was I aware of most the comms after a certain point, as I was in the incredabily rare position where I was acting CO, as a CMP, as the CE did not believe they were capable for the job and stepped down. So I was in the CIC with a lone SO.

    I can say that pepperspray is not on par with abuse, unless it was used excessively. It is actually the most optimal thing to use in the brig, as pepperspray can be refilled 7 tiles away from the cells, while the recharge timer for the stunbaton is painfully long (I'm talking 15 minutes at least from 0 to 100) and the flash is generally the go-to as the taser is...well, hit and miss as briefings will show.


    I was using general comms quite often to speak with cargo, while aCO and I did not notice any requests to speak with me from yourself, or any requests to be summoned by one of my MPs.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  4. #4
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    My first part of reply will be to snoop and the latter to solid.

    RP isnt an excuse for going out of the way and over the top. Youre good at RP and like i said it can be fun and quirky. But whether you look at it from an IC or and OOC perspective its abit over the top to go on like that and expect someone to just hand themselves in. From an IC RP perspective in respects to the whole hitting windpipe and everything thing that would be more likely to kill someone than anything if you crushed someones neck like that. From an OOC perspective we both know that there is no way to viably do that in game and to use your fists to put someone into a state where you can consider them subdued would be hardcritting them. For the most part though i have absolutely no problem with what you were saying or doing until the point where you peppersprayed a prisoner who was still under the flash stun and tied to a bed. It was not needed and everyone here knows that there is nothing in perma you can kill yourself with so the RP excuse of "searching for weapons" is just that, an excuse, otherwise the pen would have been taken away. (no the pen wasnt the suicide method it does no damage) Which im not sure if its still a rule break or not and if it applys to perma or not. Its only in high alert situations or emergencys prisoners can be left unattended. Honestly it just felt like a childish at best psychotic at worst "i must win" moment after you used alot of sprays that did nothing. I dont want to seem to be coming off overly harsh or anything like that especially over a game and an event that ultimately changed nothing in the round. Its purely a factor of a rule was broken so i reported it.

    And now for my reply to solid: rereading ML i see the max sentances and such so yea youre right if you wanted to stretch it all out and get what you can and really try make it a perma it woulda tottaled for it. And frankly once Anderson grabbed my bag and saw the stunprod id forgotten about i figured it was prolly gonna be perma by the end of it anyways which is why i figured it would be at least more fun for people involved for abit of a run around. i didnt expect to get as far as i did honestly haha. I know you being aCO is a VERY rare thing which is why for the most part i excluded you, that and you never did anything wrong as far as i saw. The pepperspray while i was gasmasked could be called excessive but it was also inneffective so you can see why he would have spammed it, never had a problem with that fact. Spraying a subdued, stunned prisoner who is tied down, missing and then moving closer to ensure you spray them. Well in the real world that would be a rather psychopathic thing to do but this is just a game and meant to be all in good fun. It all comes down to "is it assault to use any LTL tool against a prisoner when there is literally no threat", less than no threat even.
    H'chak Best click clack.

    Alice 'Snow' Falkner: The one TRUE snowflake.

    Lurker 420 Points at the dank weeds.

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    Also It was the table. It really hurts to kick them out from under yourself.
    H'chak Best click clack.

    Alice 'Snow' Falkner: The one TRUE snowflake.

    Lurker 420 Points at the dank weeds.

  6. #6
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    Just want to chime in here saying that most masks will block pepper spray, even without sunglasses. Tac masks, gasmasks, and the like.

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    I will pull the logs in the next 24 hours.

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    Logs:

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  9. #9
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    I think that the RP is teetering on the line of a bit silly, but I'm not really seeing anything here that would really qualify as a rulebreak on Snooper44's part. No appeal was requested, it's typical for MPs to spray/flash/etc the prisoners when in the cell in order to ensure they stay down, and his use of pepperspray while trying to detain you is entirely an IC issue. The fact you weren't read your charges - at least as far as the logs show - is an issue, but it's the arresting officer's responsibility to do that.

    I'm really not sure what specifically comes across as a breach of Marine Law to you here, but I'm not seeing any rulebreaks in reviewing these logs. Although the remarks he made could stand to be a little less meme-y, I don't think they're bad enough warrant staff intervention at this point.

    Resolved; no action taken.
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