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Thread: Staff Report - Taketheshot56

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    Staff Report - Taketheshot56

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Ilyssa
    Date of Incident
    January 16, 2020
    Your Character Name?
    Jhenney Preiss
    Their BYOND Key
    Taketheshot56
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    8:30 PM CST - 01:30 (AM) GMT+1
    Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Protocol 2
    Description of the incident
    #1 The clarification on overescalation takes from the rule clarification thread: "Is group punching someone until their bone breaks overescalation? - When we say you need to escalate a fight, it's refering to the amount of damage you can do. Punching someone to death/broken bones has no real differences than doing the same with a knife or gun. As such, keep that in mind when escalating an argument."

    - Taketheshot56 argues that the fight between Amelia and Compy was properly escalated. However, as the clarification above clearly states, determining whether escalation was properly done or not depends on the damage caused. After Compy assaulted Amelia with her machete, Amelia sustained about 140~ brute damage to chest and was in crit. This happened in <2 seconds. After I fired my shotgun at Compy, she had a roughly equal amount of brute damage and was also in crit. These two events should therefore be counted as equal in severity in accordance with the rule clarification. Regardless, Taketheshot56 claims the fight was properly escalated. However, the machete being a melee weapon is irrelevant as, according to your own rules, the damage it did to Amelia is roughly equal to a buck PB, and therefore far too severe an escalation from simple punching.

    #2 The actual rule 14 about Lethal Force: "Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fist fight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law."

    - Taketheshot56 argues that I was not involved with the fight, and that I had no right to intervene. For this round, Amelia and I were both medics in Alpha, and had been battle buddies for the entire round. The play-fighting started while we were in medbay post-evac and sorting out our inventories and recharging our defibs. I was present for the entire encounter start to finish, and RP'd with both Amelia and Compy the entire time. The rules do not, at any point, specify that an encounter is limited to two people at a time. This was an encounter between three people, and the situation didn't escalate to buckshot until after the attempted murder, as described in the rule. The actual reason for shooting Compy in this instance is absolutely justified, absolutely can be applied in a simiar real-life scenario, and didn't escalate to lethal force through any actions of mine. I fully intended to heal both Compy and Amelia, which I did - as shown in the logs.

    #3 After speaking with several moderators on the topic, including Taketheshot56, the moderators appear to be working from a different rule-set from the rest of the playerbase. A lot of what Taketheshot56 told me in-game is not shown in the rules in anyway, and it is absolutely unreasonable to expect the playerbase to adhere to rules that do not even exist on paper. In this situation, I obeyed the rules to the best of my ability, and got punished for it. Since there was little to no time to do anything else to resolve the situation, as it escalated to attempted murder incredibly suddenly, and left Amelia one-hit from death in the grand space of <2 seconds, I would argue my actions were absolutely justified, as any further delay would have left her dead. My actions were in-character and appropriate for the situation, and in accordance with the rules as provided.
    EvidenceHow you would punish the accused
    I do not think that Taketheshot56 did anything wrong in this situation. There is obviously a failure to communicate effectively about the nature of the rules, and the situations in which they apply. In this circumstance, I was being held to answer to a rule that doesn't exist. I resent that, I want the note removed, and I want the rules overhauled and updated to accurately reflect current policy. This is an administrative issue, and a failure to provide effective communication with the playerbase.

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    To clarify, I don't think that Taketheshot56 did anything wrong with regards to the administrative failure that created this situation in the first place. Their only error in this situation was to punish me for failing to follow a rule that is not accessible to the playerbase. But the main failing is with the admin staff as a whole from failing to keep the rules up to date and understandable.

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    So to clarify?

    Are you changing the target of this report from just me. To all admins?

    Just so we can be fully clear.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

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    My main goal as a player is to get the note removed, and as such I'm going to leave it with you as the target as you were the admin that dealt with the situation.

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    Fight:

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    PMs:

    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Former staff, also former Synthetic senator.

    Now just a shitposter and lurker.

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    Hey, I should probably post since I was involved with this.

    The fight was hardly properly escalated since it went disarm vs punching and then ONE punch vs straight up getting murdered. Ilyssa did not bumble in and just PB Compy during that "fight", they were RPing the entire way and I can confirm we were buddying up multiple times while planetside which gives them A GOOD REASON to defend me.

    As far as I can see there is NOTHING written in the rules that another person can't get involved and the ACTUAL WRITTEN RULES seem to allow what Ilyssa did, which is defending me from being murdered. If you have hidden rules about it do share with with your playerbase as this is a pretty BASIC requirement for us to follow those rules.

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    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    As for my take on this. I believe everything I did was right.

    For long LONG before i became staff the escalation rules have been the same

    -Both Must Punch
    -Both Must Use Melee
    -Then someone can bring out a gun.

    Ilyssa, I've tried to convey this many times to you but I must also do it here.

    You did not punch Compy.
    Compy did not punch you.
    You wouldn't have been able to escalate to Melee as you had never punched and been punched.
    You wouldn't have been able to escalate to guns as you had never melee'd and never been melee'd as you had never punched and been punched.

    A very simple back and forth that needs to take place in order to resort to using a gun to murder someone.
    YES marine law does offer a clause for self defense, marine law is not the server rules. It exists to protect people from being arrested for self defense, if you did not properly escalate a fight you might not have committed a crime, but you did break a server rule.

    Simply Standing around cheering someone on does not mean you are involved physically in the fight and it does not offer you escalation privileges.
    If this was the case, any marine could notice the MPs batoning their friend say "THATS MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WHOLE WORLD MP! FUCKING DIE!" And then shoot them.

    Hopefully this has shed some light on any confusion. You are also reporting me for a protocol 2 breach, lack of investigation. I consulted your own VV logs extensively to see you had no physical interaction other than you shooting Compy and discussed the situation with you at length.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    If this was the case, any marine could notice the MPs batoning their friend say "THATS MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WHOLE WORLD MP! FUCKING DIE!" And then shoot them.
    In what way does a MP arresting someone translate to being murdered by a machete? I understand this is not my report but I do not know what kind of example you're trying to make here.

    Now if the MP was shooting someone in the hallway with a shotgun that would be much better example to the actual context here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaddishRed View Post
    In what way does a MP arresting someone translate to being murdered by a machete? I understand this is not my report but I do not know what kind of example you're trying to make here.

    Now if the MP was shooting someone in the hallway with a shotgun that would be much better example to the actual context here.
    Its just an example, its not your report no. But this is the kind of stuff that had to be dealt with before that rule. People gunning down other people for their "Best friend"
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    For long LONG before i became staff the escalation rules have been the same

    -Both Must Punch
    -Both Must Use Melee
    -Then someone can bring out a gun.
    This is not reflected in the rules as they are written. Escalation, as per the clarification thread, is damage dependent. Each responses should therefore be escalated proportionally. The three machete strikes, and the single shotgun blast did a rougly equal amount of damage and were proportionate to each-other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    Ilyssa, I've tried to convey this many times to you but I must also do it here.
    Please leave the patronising attitude at the door. Its bad enough that you labeled me "very argumentative", and that staff should "watch for future behaviour", all I did was ask you to justify yourself and your arguments with regards to the rules as they are written.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    You did not punch Compy.
    Compy did not punch you.
    You wouldn't have been able to escalate to Melee as you had never punched and been punched.
    You wouldn't have been able to escalate to guns as you had never melee'd and never been melee'd as you had never punched and been punched.
    A very simple back and forth that needs to take place in order to resort to using a gun to murder someone.
    This isn't reflected in the rules, as rule 14 - lethal force clearly states: "Do not attack another player without a legitimate, explainable roleplay reason that could be applied in a similar, real-life scenario. A fist fight does not suddenly escalate into a gun fight. Even if you are justified, you are still susceptible to Marine Law.". I would definitely argue that I fulfilled this criteria.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    YES marine law does offer a clause for self defense, marine law is not the server rules. It exists to protect people from being arrested for self defense, if you did not properly escalate a fight you might not have committed a crime, but you did break a server rule.
    I can only follow the rules as they are written, and I definitely feel like I did that to the best of my ability. The points you are arguing are not available to the playerbase, and it is unreasonable to expect us to follow hidden and secret rules.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    Simply Standing around cheering someone on does not mean you are involved physically in the fight and it does not offer you escalation privileges.
    If this was the case, any marine could notice the MPs batoning their friend say "THATS MY BEST FRIEND IN THE WHOLE WORLD MP! FUCKING DIE!" And then shoot them.
    This was not equivalent to an MP batoning their friend, this was an initially playful fight that was improperly escalated into attempted murder, according to your own rule clarifications. RaddishRed (Amelia, the victim) witnessed to this themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    Hopefully this has shed some light on any confusion. You are also reporting me for a protocol 2 breach, lack of investigation. I consulted your own VV logs extensively to see you had no physical interaction other than you shooting Compy and discussed the situation with you at length.
    You wrote in the note that the fight was properly escalated, it was not. You claim I was argumentative and that I was to be watched for future behaviour, when all I asked you to do was justify yourself with regards to the rules as written. Of course it is upsetting when an Admin notes you for failing to follow a rule that doesn't exist on paper, and you've failed to remain professional by labeling me as "very argumentative" and "watch for future behaviour", and for being very patronising. I definitely think you've failed to follow the code of conducts, I think you've failed to apply the rules as they are written, and that the note was erroneous.

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