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View Poll Results: Do you enjoy metarushes as a xeno

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  • I play xeno and I like facing marines head-on

    15 19.48%
  • I play xeno and I dislike facing marines head-on, I'd prefer X

    8 10.39%
  • I play marine and I like moving frontlines

    46 59.74%
  • I play marine and I dislike moving frontlines, I'd prefer X

    8 10.39%
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Thread: My take on CM midgame and some ways how to avoid it

  1. #31
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    You are wrong Avalanche and I don't care to elaborate further.

  2. #32
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    Metarushes. I played the test prison round and it seems much better with those changes. The only other map where metarushes are a thing is Big Red. Straight three squad rush into any of the three major entrances would win marines the game like every time. The only reason why this is not happening all of the time is marines being afraid of admin intervention. Still, due to distances involved hive can only defend one, maybe one and a half of those entrances. Then, if the hive is not in the south eastern caves it would get completely slaughtered. Also, you can metarush Sorokyne. LZ2, 3 squad order to scout past the aerodrome.

    Admin intervention in metarushes. I think the intervention should be proactive, not reactive. Basically the point of the intervention should be to salvage the round and almost all the interventions I've seen didn't accomplish that task and only prolonged the round and only by a little bit. I think the only successful admin intervention I've seen is one round where marines rushed ETA and admins blocked the passage. I wouldn't mind a ruthless intervention like OB misfiring on Delta when they're completely ignoring command orders, but it should be proactive and prevent metarush, not punish marines after the metarush has already succeeded.

    Meta. The current meta, especially on high pop and ultra high pop kinda favors marines too much. You can complain about warrior lunge as much as you want, but in the current reality for the most of the initial(metarush) stage warriors are almost completely useless since they cannot grab anyone without being shredded by like 8 other marines. Basically there are way too many marines on the ground for that open combat to happen. Xenos get pushed and then they have to rely on boilers and the queen to kill the next 5 marines and ad nauseum.

    Boilers and Queens. I definitely feel that marines need some way to break boiler corridor defenses. There's like one corridor of death leading to west caves on LV from inflatables and I've seen it cost marines so many games. And yes, I feel like the Queen should be changed too. But in current meta, with hive being always undermanned 25-35%, it's the only two things that give xenos any fighting chance. Even with this in mind, I think in 11 last games I've played, there was only 1 xeno major.

    Defcon, marine defenses and sentries. One of the semi recent 6 hour rounds I've played had 73 marines sitting at FOB with 7 sentries on Big Red after the first rush failed. And of course the hive of 20-something would not break it any time soon. With marines having so many bodies and sentries being so strong, defcon is in a peculiar cursed state of being broken, but unfixable. Defcon 1 is nigh impossible to get, especially on, confusingly, LV, but if it was fixed and achievable, marines would start going for sentry megaFOB defcon strats, that would be even harder for xenos to deal with than it is now. Also marines got used to getting a free nuke from the admins on long rounds, so for them sitting on FOB hoping for good hits and that free nuke makes a lot of sense now, leading to those cancerous siedges.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moja View Post
    You are wrong Avalanche and I don't care to elaborate further.
    Thank you for letting me know, I do in fact appreciate opinions coming from accounts that were created in 2019. Especially when they give no arguments and then vanish

  4. #34
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    When marines get punished for walking west it really makes me think.

  5. #35
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    I've been gone for a bit and recently started popping back in, and noticed admins have been intervening a lot more often than they used to but in a bad way like avalanchee said

    let players be bad otherwise they'll just be really really bad going forward without help is what I say. Either that or start spawning some OP super weapons for marines from time to time that would be cool, too.

  6. #36
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    i dont mind metarushes

    what i mind is when the marines btfo out of the hive at 12:40 and then cry delay at any xeno left at 12:41 that just runs away because they keep trying to heal and theres no easy targets around so it seems like they move aimlessly and theres no safespot, so they run farther away and dchats screaming just gets more n more obnoxious and then you get ahelped/queenmother'd asking to do the equivalent to killing urself because you're surviving in what is arguably the a fun and challenging enviorment for a xeno veteran

    like fuck the game will end soon so let me work at my own pace without yo shet, we even have timers and stuff to prevent the legendary 2 hour lurker solos
    Last edited by reuben owen; 01-26-2020 at 07:57 PM.

  7. #37
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    If Metarushes are a problem then the root cause is that Xenos are too weak early game. Just fix that instead of locking down the map or other shenanigans, aside from giving boths sides time to build up fortifications a bit.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    The only other map where metarushes are a thing is Big Red. Straight three squad rush into any of the three major entrances would win marines the game like every time. The only reason why this is not happening all of the time is marines being afraid of admin intervention.
    I would like to disagree point out right here that this part is pretty wrong. Xenomorphs are a very mobile race and can easily react to multiple pushes. Last time marines kept trying this the xenos were tactical, meaning they weren't out for self glory and coordinated as a team. There is almost always at least ONE xeno in every entrances watching it and if not the queen will order them to do it and it happens without fail.

    I'll list the points:

    1. Xenos can cover great distances in maps through the use of tunnels. Last time, the xenos would evacuate the East side tunnels in Big Red and hive in Viro and EVA caves straight to avoid the marines when they are not prepared. Marines will then waste a lot of time running in circles looking for said hive and the Xenos can choose to hit them wherever they like, either in circles or from the back, front, you name it.

    If you read the evolution message for Burrower then it hits ancient, you will noticed that it is called 'the Bane of Marine pushes'. It is called that for a reason.

    Another reason for this was because Specs, especially SADARS, were terrifying then. You have Rockets that instagibbs and Scout Spec that carries shotgun gunning down xenos. So xenos would not dare face marines head on and were a lot more cautious then.

    2. Queen can just deovi and...run. Was done before, can be done again. Wait till the hive is more matured or when marines lost more of their momentum or specs then fight or just re-ovi at another spot. But too many queens want to gamer and ditch all sense of being what a Queen is: To overwatch, guide, heal, and de-ovi to screech and fight only when needed to, not too early. If you want to gamer you should pick Lurker or Warrior.

    3. Normally marines outnumber xenos at least on groundside 3 or 2 to one. To execute a flank or a three squad flank, their total ground force will be divided by 3. For instance say in a highpop situation we have 30-40 ish xenos against say 80 marines(10-15 left for FOB). To divide into 3 you will have at least 25 marines executing per entrance flank which is usually more than enough for 25 xenos to focus on. 1 being queen, 4 others busy watching/building the other flanks. 25 killing the single squad. In high pop, having 25 man squad in a location is death as you are facing a natural choke(Unless you play Trijent or certain areas on Ice).

    So say you hit Lambda, ETA, Filtration on nightmare. The time needed to get FROM Filtration and ETA to Lambda(If met with enemy) takes about 5-8 minutes depending on xeno building(0 defences of course will be quicker). 5 minutes is a lot of time in CM combat time and most of the time results in squad wipe. Thing about xenos is they can do this and, when well coordinated by a queen, they can quickly detach and move to where the other marines are.

    However, current xenomorph players are incredibly reckless in general compared to the ol' days. And it has stooped to a new low where you have to have staff intervening for you to win. Ol' hive can comeback with 8 xenos left, why do we have to enforce this now? Quite frankly it ruins the fun if you play as a xeno because NOW xenos won't learn from their mistakes, they learn to be a snowflake and cry metarush to easy win or for hilarity(Which I did one or two of the rounds cause I wanted to see Admemes spawn aboms to create salt in Dchat hohoho, Dchat main moments). Now xenos are more stubborn than before, no one wants to play as a team.

  9. #39
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    I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not talking about a three pronged attack. I'm talking about rushing 3 squads into a single entrance.

    If we're going three pronged, faking it should be better than actually doing it, just order each of three entrances be breached at the same time and then rotate all other squads to whichever breach is the most successful.

    One xeno watching an entrance cannot stop a marine push into it, only a certain critical mass of xenos can.

    As to your other points, yes, burrower can be really successful, but xenos run into the same organizational inertia problem as marines do. I remember one epic round where marines rushed while having the Tcomms flank completely open, which was spotted by our great burrower player... I, as a praetorian was the second person there and then it took like five more minutes to organize a proper push since sisters just would not be bothered to come. This with the queen ordering it and all.

    Queen running should be generally a last resort option. Retreats like this often lead to xenos being completely slaughtered. Happens like every time the hive is in Lambda.

    Another point, those pesky marine mains chipping at metarush prohibition seem to miss, is that metarushes everyone discussing are one the lighter side, but if all metarushes should be allowed, what about a 12:15 landing 3.5 squads rush into filtration?

    Since somebody suggested a test day once a month, how about we get a metarush allowed day once a week? So that marines can slaughter the hive 24 times and then pat themselves on the back, about a job well done.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    snip
    Whoops, I misread the part about the 3 squad push. Sorry.

    One xeno cannot stop a marine push but they can well do to report it. Most successful flanks are often the ones that are silent or hive neglecting to stop it. You sacrifice one xeno to make sure to tell the hive so that the queen can cook up a plan or have an early escape when needed.

    There is one difference between xenos and marines when it comes to organisational problem: QM. Queens should not be bashful when using Queen Mother to instill order and Xenos can be punished when disobeying the Queen. This kind of offer does not exist for Marines for groundside situations, only on roundstart shenanigans and MPs going groundside.

    Queen running yes should be a last resort, but when entering the tunnel must never be done late. True chaos and disorder happens when she does it too late and marines are too close. Queen players need to understand that they have some part of Marine CIC duty of informing the Hive what is what. So they need to re-ovi and assume command quickly. When done right, full hive evacuation is possible, although rare.

    But the one I referred was not a full hive evacuation, more of Queen evacuating the battleground or main hive while the hive dance the marines in circles inside the caves like Big Red. Since the queen is no longer in the caves, the chances of her dying and being caught is eliminated. So xenos have more flexibility in killing the marines. This is more frequent and usually have a decent chance of success.

    On the metarush part, I think what most people are arguing is the current definition of metarush. You can have pushes as late as 12:32 and legit actually 12:40 and people still consider it a metarush as long as the hive gets wiped, which is quite silly. So if the hive successfully defended themselves, which they did before, it's suddenly no longer metarush?

    Now this is genuinely what I think has a logic flaw here with this. If you THINK metarush is bad and should be intervened, then why didnt staff/devs increase the Dropship timer to say 12:25? Current Dropship has a timer up to around 12:15. Would you not solve a lot of problems with this?

    Also on the burrower spotting that Tcomms flank, that was me. If I recall, the hive was in the heat of the battle so withdrawing safely from the battle takes time. This is why Queen Announcements have 0 cooldown and must be spammed. That's how you get hive's attention. And then you have QM to make everyone listen to you. Because announcements come with a sound while what you say can be flooded with spam texts of actions like you got hit or missed with bullets, etc.

    This also reminded me to say that a lot of people dont seem to understand the flaw in the rush strategy of the marines with 3.5 squad rush is, if marines rush with most of their forces, their FOB will usually be trash and badly guarded and is usually the best time to take on the FOB. Xenos can perform a counter-rush. We have done it a few times recently, so I dont really see this as a problem. All you need is a healthy hive of matures/elder T3s and a burrower.

    As much as xenos need time to build their defences, marines also need time to build their FOB. So in most cases, rush strategies have flaws. So to counter this marines have to actually leave some guard and allow time for FOB to be built and have to patrol the colony. Which means they will have fewer men to push the caves and have an effective rush. I can tell you if xenos start to understand the counter-rush strategy and starts to execute it with perfection and more so with practice, this metarush argument will be shifted from defining metarush to changing the meta or 'balance' once again.

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