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View Poll Results: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack as combat/support castes

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  • Yes

    42 22.95%
  • No

    22 12.02%
  • Just gotta git gud

    119 65.03%
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Thread: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack? [Poll]

  1. #111
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reuben owen View Post
    it's more like scissors and paper at the same time
    Buckshot Shotgun is the only commonly available marine weapon that deal with fast, but squishy castes. Buckshot in this scenario is Scissors and Runner/Lurker (yes, if you have problem with 1vs1 marines as runner, you will have as much problem when you are lurker) are paper. That is a big simplification, but overall this works this way. The only commonly viable counter. That was already nerfed couple of times. There is no replacement for that, no bolt cutter option, no knife option etc. Each and every other commonly available marine weapon (and ammo) can't reliably deal with those benos, because they don't do enough burst damage to kill super fast castes.

    There is many variables why is that and they all were listed trough forum and gitlabs. You can only see 7 tiles in each direction. Runner can move those 7 tiles in less than a second. Here. This is why each and every other commonly available marine weapon (and ammo) can't be considered a "counter" against fast benos. There is so much you can nerf buckshot, before you will hit this magic number, where runners won't be able to be punished. Right now even if player is god-like runner/lurker, he can be struct down with a well placed buckshot/s. At some point of beno cries, it will be deleted. In that case beno who doesn't make mistakes won't be able to be killed, the opposite of marine who doesn't make mistakes, because there is multitude of abilities and benos who can punish group of said god-like marines who doesn't make mistakes.

    In short: https://gitlab.com/cmdevs/ColonialMa...-/issues/10656
    Check it out, there you have offical Bancrose response. If no marinemain can convince you, then head honcho has to.
    REDEMPTION

  2. #112
    Senior Member MasterShakeEZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    I don't really know how in RPS game guys who always roll scissors are not easly defeated by guys always rolling paper. Scissors are OP, please nerf.
    marines can have more than 1 weapon so its not rock paper scissors.

    give all aliens a ranged ability and melee abilities then they will beable to counter everything like marines can.

  3. #113
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    marines can have more than 1 weapon so its not rock paper scissors.

    give all aliens a ranged ability and melee abilities then they will beable to counter everything like marines can.
    Only those who follow the meta closely have more than one primary weapon. The same gitlab I linked above mentions the problem of marines being able to switch weapons on the go, but as Bancrose said, wield delays and accuracy penalties already deal with that.

    In new MOBA update, what beno besides Drone, Defender, Carrier, Hivelord and Crusher doesn't have a range option atleast as a strain? Runner has pounce (and bone shards I think), Lurker also pounces, Warrior has his grab, ravs have pounce, whole sentinel branch is ranged, Prateorian has both nades and acid sprays. Even Burrower has ranged stun option.

    Do we really want to balance every beno because robust marines "might" use the best meta build? It sounds like type of CM update. Balance Marines around their best players and balance benos around their worst players. As per usuall.

    Also, by the time runner is on your screen, it is kind of RPS. If you already don't have your best weapon wielded in hands, then you won't be able to accurately hit anything.
    If we are speaking about 1vs1 scenario, lets imagine situation, where there is lone marine in unweeded LV caves. You have two weapons, Buckshot Shotgun and Pulse Rifle. For the sake of the best possible loadout in the situation lets say that he also has MD on his belt, so he brought ammo in his pockets, armor, helmet and webbing. He gets ping that something comes from north. But that ping doesn't say what is about to come. It might be sentinel, so he should pick pulse rifle, it might be runner, so he should pick buckshot shotgun. Lets also say he has rail light on one of his weapons, so he can see 6 tiles in fron of him. Then finally beno appears on 6 tile. Just as in RPS game, you don't have time to react to what your opponent already picked, you have to pick something before and count that this will beat whatever comes.
    If that beno appearing on the 6 tile is sentinel and marine he had shotgun in hands, then sentinel shoots atleast one neuro at him before he changes weapons and atleast another one before accuracy penalty and wield delays go away. But then said marine is super slow, has blurred vision and sentinel can just tank all of the shoots to land thrid neuro.
    If that beno was runner and marine had pulse rifle in hand, then marine either shoots, runner tanks one burst and pounces (then slashes 2-3 times, then runs away, then pounces again and repeat). Or marine tries to change weapon, but runner just runs up and pounces.

    Isn't that kind like RPS?
    REDEMPTION

  4. #114
    Whitelisted Captain Just L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    marines can have more than 1 weapon so its not rock paper scissors.

    give all aliens a ranged ability and melee abilities then they will beable to counter everything like marines can.
    Marines can have more than one weapon, but most of the weapons that can shoot farther suck major ass.
    I play as Orlando 'Florida' Blackburn, the big fucking space jew from the moon, who has never even been to Florida.

    I also play as the xeno OY-XXX, you will usually see me playing Praetorian and helping carry the hive. Or as queen.


  5. #115
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    I am seeing a lot of shotgun and L42 lately. It's very strong. You can shoot through marines accurately and sort of 'chade' without moving due to the range given, you can scout ahead with it and ammo lasts ages. You switch to shotgun for close in work.

  6. #116
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    I am seeing a lot of shotgun and L42 lately. It's very strong. You can shoot through marines accurately and sort of 'chade' without moving due to the range given, you can scout ahead with it and ammo lasts ages. You switch to shotgun for close in work.
    Bold part already shows wrong assumption. L42 with Smart Scope eats ammo faster than pulse rifle does and has nearly twice as small mag. And thats due the fact that with Pulse Rifle you don't burst all the time and you usually shoot at what is on your screen only when you are at first line.
    Its to the point where you are better taking 5 L42 mags and 5 Pulse Rifle mags just to reload your empty mags.

    Also it shows that there is no "medium" range in SS13. There is only Close and Long range. Yet both normal players and Devs want to advocate that Pulse Rifle should be not only "main dish" of marines, but also exclusively good at that legendary "medium" range and that range only. Might as well wish for unicorn.
    Last edited by CABAL; 03-31-2020 at 08:13 PM.
    REDEMPTION

  7. #117
    Whitelisted Captain Just L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    I am seeing a lot of shotgun and L42 lately. It's very strong. You can shoot through marines accurately and sort of 'chade' without moving due to the range given, you can scout ahead with it and ammo lasts ages. You switch to shotgun for close in work.
    You're only gonna see about a dozen or so marines with an L42, tops. There just aren't enough smart scopes for it to be a common weapon.
    I play as Orlando 'Florida' Blackburn, the big fucking space jew from the moon, who has never even been to Florida.

    I also play as the xeno OY-XXX, you will usually see me playing Praetorian and helping carry the hive. Or as queen.


  8. #118
    Whitelisted Captain diedsniper's Avatar
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    Ya'll be sleeping on L42 as nothing but a support weapon, yet it has higher burst damage than m41, faster firerate than semi auto m41(without qfa) and no spread just unstock it and you have the best chase weapon in the game next to shotgun and m39.

    As a combat caste you have alot of ways to deal with shotgun marines aka don't touch them, or stun them tackle and lurker pounce is a death sentance to marine on ancient xeno. If your a support caste you already fucked up by being in shotgun distance.


    Spoiler Spoiler:

  9. #119
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    CABAL - L42 ammo is plentiful. Lots of supply drops of it.

    Just L - I am counting a lot more marines than 12 bringing an L42.

    Anyway, it's a really effective combo.

  10. #120
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    CABAL - L42 ammo is plentiful. Lots of supply drops of it.

    Just L - I am counting a lot more marines than 12 bringing an L42.

    Anyway, it's a really effective combo.
    If we are talking Supply drops then you can even say that AP Pulse Rifle ammo is plentifull. If we are talking that, you could be only allowed to cary one 10 rounds mag and still say its plentifull.
    What ammo for common PFC weapon isn't plentifull then?
    REDEMPTION

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