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View Poll Results: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack as combat/support castes

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  • Yes

    47 23.86%
  • No

    26 13.20%
  • Just gotta git gud

    124 62.94%
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Thread: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack? [Poll]

  1. #131
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    Riiiiiiiight. The strongest caste in the game that is supposed to be king of melee dies like a fucking runner. She is supposed to be a TANK. Young or not, 3 shots is pretty ridiculous.

    And buck still stuns from multiple tiles away. It does seem that the stun is RNG and depends on how far away you are when you get hit. The closer is probably more likely to stun.

    CABAL last time we did this back and forth with stats, I posted a video to prove a point. It was about the sentinel shotgun spit being terrible despite you claiming it was some kind of mega OP weapon that could stun lock a marine from medium range. IT WAS MISSING SPITS FROM 1-2 tiles away. You were full of shit, just cause you like arguing.

    And here you are AGAIN, making more crazy claims. Runners slash is shit. In one pounce you might get 2-3 slashes. A limb has to sustain a decent amount of damage to break. I know this from playing medic plenty. Even when a limb has sustained heavy damage the break chance is RNG. It’s not guaranteed. Lurkers have a higher chance to break bones. And ravs break bones like it’s butter. Pretty sure the higher the damage dealt, the more likely you are to get a limb broken or chopped off. Ancient runners need to pounce a marine at least 3 times to get a kill. Lurkers seem to take 2. This is also heavily dependent on the lag of the server. Since stuns are tick based, and slashing/moving/firing doesn’t seem to be affected. This translates into one pounce when the server isn’t lagging is only 2 slashes. But when the server is choking on the new updates you can get double the slashes in. Attack speed doesn’t seem to be affected at all for marines or xenos.

    But god help you if you get stunned by HEDP, Queen, Claymore, Pounce, etc.

    I rarely use shotguns. I’m still kinda in disbelief that it would take 8 slugs and you’re not making that up. Guess I’ll have to make another video and test it. Still I know slugs are a utility ammo type. Same thing with flamethrowers. The advantage is in its effects, not raw damage. Being able to deny xenos the option to use their abilities for a brief amount of time can be super useful IF there is a follow up afterwards. Same thing with flamethrower. It’s usually not the flame that kills, it’s the follow up with grenades, or chasing that delivers the killing blow.

    Slugs are basically the boomer version of neuro except ten times better. It does damage (weak-ish?!), ignored armor, stuns for a small knockdown, can be shot from long range, blocks abilities, AND is accessible to every god damn T1 marine in the game.

    8 slugs to down an ancient runner seems really really weak, but devs really need to have a come to Jesus moment with the damage/health/effects of everything in the game and post a public spreadsheet. Some things are ridiculously broken. And the community at large should have some say in gameplay... but I don’t think that will ever happen unfortunately.

    Let the community decide balance.
    Last edited by Rocco Ward; 04-11-2020 at 05:28 PM.

  2. #132
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    Actually i think splitting the effects of slugs into a already existing ammo type would be good. Give beanbag rounds the ability to stun and deny abilities but cause zero damage. Then buff slug damage. It’d be a fair trade off IMO.

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Ward View Post
    Let the community decide balance.

  4. #134
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    Post a spreadsheet. Let’s see dat data.

  5. #135
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    Hard to get good with constant changes and zero visibility on what is actually good. Wish we were psychic like you Aval

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Ward View Post
    beno snip
    Get back to that conversation and double-check if I was talking about Shotgun-Spit being OP ability that allowed sentinels to stunlock marines. If I ever talked about sentinel ability being good at medium range stunlock, then I can say with 100% certain that I was talking about normal neuro.
    Also what "last time we did that back and forth stat"? You posted this video in thread I responded once before and it was about slug shotgun, not about shotgun spit. Not much of that "back and forth stats", isn't it? You posted vid where you either tried to hit marines at 5 an more tiles away from you, or you were just mostly missing clicks and despite what most benomains claim about "brainless PB buckshot" you never menaged to get even one Spit Shotgun PB.

    Critical slash. Did you know this term? The one that ignores armor and possibly does more damage? This is addition with normal slashes is what breaks the skull in one pounce.
    Everything despite the fact that my latest response was a joke one following logic of seeing one situation where some baldo/SSD player couldn't do shit against marine and it immediately proves how game is unbalanced.
    If young Queen with Screech and Neuro spam can't 1vs1 a marine with buckshot shotgun, then surerly buckshot isn't the thing we should blame in this situation, but a bald player who played the Queen and also robust player who played the Marine.
    Benomains have one in common for sure: They want bigass policy of "No marine should ever 1vs1 Queen/T3" which is stupid, because if skill gap is big enough between them, then marine should be able to 1vs1 anything. This flawed policy is what creates toxic balance environment where benos are balanced around their weakest players and marines are balanced around their strongest. Come on, give it a thought. Look at any marine nerf. Its always because someone was very good with something, like slugs for example. Basically nobody used them at all and just the fact of loading them into shotgun was a clear sign of new player not knowing anything about the game. Slugs were always in the same spot, rarerly changed with small dmg nerfs/buffs back and forth till skilled marines started to notice them, use and get immediately smacked with nerf.

    Slug is inaccurate, it has scatter, it dissapears not long after leaving screen, doesn't ignore armor (but slighty damages it slighty), has pathetic damage (while also being a one projectile that beno armor can absorb all the damege), its a single projectile that is very hard to hit and those faster benos that are even harder to hit have fricking EVADE RNG where they can radomly ignore slug shoot from shotgun filled to the brim with attachements for accuracy. All of that while doing jack shit to T3's, with "shell shock" (locking abilities for a tick, or two) being at best inconsistent (RNG?) if not outright bugged and not working (shooting slug at boiler that aims gas doesn't cancel it).

    Maybe slugs are available to any marine, but they require a bit of a skill, you have to be perfect at tracking, shooting in front of running benos to hit, unlike Pulse Rifle/M39 where you spray and pray, or buckshot where you count on clicking on beno sprite.

    How can Queen is supposed to be TANK if she takes as much space as marine? I don't see any 1x1 tanks around.

    Buckshot does stuns from 1-2 tiles away with 3 tiles being max and this depends on if you get hit by "buckshot projectile", or "additional buckshot projectile". The latter doesn't stun.

  7. #137
    Member Nwd72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Ward View Post
    snip
    Correct me if I am wrong - but aren't queens unstunnable, excluding things such as AP rockets, and OBs? And I believe the LTB?
    I do not remember ever being able to stun a Queen with buckshot, pointblank or not. And anywho - just.. screech. Or neuro. Then that marine is doneso. Especially if they are on their OWN.

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nwd72 View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong - but aren't queens unstunnable, excluding things such as AP rockets, and OBs? And I believe the LTB?
    I do not remember ever being able to stun a Queen with buckshot, pointblank or not. And anywho - just.. screech. Or neuro. Then that marine is doneso. Especially if they are on their OWN.
    This was a 2nd queen (that was young) who gave up after all xenos had died. She didn't even try to attack the marine, as she was just chilling in the COs office and staring.

    Almost anytime a marine is fighting a queen she is usually Elder or more mature. The only times marines ever fight a young queen is if the 1st one dies. Mature queens cannot get stunned by buck but apparently young ones can.

  9. #139
    Senior Member Destrok's Avatar
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    queen cannot be stunned by buckshot regardless of her maturity
    Waiting for lagless CM
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  10. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Ward View Post
    This was a 2nd queen (that was young) who gave up after all xenos had died. She didn't even try to attack the marine, as she was just chilling in the COs office and staring.

    Almost anytime a marine is fighting a queen she is usually Elder or more mature. The only times marines ever fight a young queen is if the 1st one dies. Mature queens cannot get stunned by buck but apparently young ones can.
    What made you think you can be stunned by a shotgun as a queen? You need explosives to stun a queen and even then, nades and clays do not do enough to stun her unless you are relying on the shockwave in a tiny box area. OBs, CAS, mortar rounds and Chem bombs are the only things that will bunga a queen to a stun.

    Even then, the queen gave up. A robust queen even a young one in that situation could screech and neuro away. Then slash head, groin or arms hoping for a crit to IGNORE ALL ARMOUR AND DO EXTRA DAMAGE. Infact you never seem to raise this up at all when you claim the damage a xeno does is shit. One crit will most likely break bones and if you are really really lucky can slam a marine's organs into paste requiring extensive medical treatment or instant death if it's a heart breaker.

    The knowledge you're showing here is either lacking in some way or selective in how you've interpreted it. Some of the best xeno players can take on 5 preds in a round after killing 10 or so marines. They don't seem to complain about buckshot. The only exception to this are the one trick ponies that play lurker, cloak and jump at lone marines. Sure they can kill a bunch of marines over time but then they bump into a robusto who sends them into xeno hell for being an unrobust one trick pony that expects an easy win.

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