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View Poll Results: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack as combat/support castes

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  • Yes

    47 23.86%
  • No

    26 13.20%
  • Just gotta git gud

    124 62.94%
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Thread: Are shotguns too hard to counter attack? [Poll]

  1. #71
    Senior Member Me_Bigsnail's Avatar
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    Cheers for answering

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocco Ward View Post
    snip
    Regarding marine equipment I'll just tell you that COs and XOs will rarely use a SG, Incendiary ammo can go dry pretty quick and once you spent the mag you'll be finding yourself ditching it for a normal magazine instead, SL armor isn’t game changing although it’s true that it protects a bit more than standard ammo, I don’t get why you're calling Smartgunners Sergeants, they're corporals.

    Anyways I cannot talk much about SG armor, as I haven’t tested if they are better or worse, Specialists get armor related to their kit (SADAR and GL have armor that protects them from explosives, Sniper lightweight armor worse than light armor, pyro protection to fire, etc.) It’s not like Xenos can create explosions or fires (yes I know acid is a thing, but it still hurts when you're pyro)

    Smartgunners job is to put up suppressing fire, they're not meant to kill as it takes quite the time to put down a defender, fending off xenos is their main job, grossly comparing xeno caste with marine roles isn't valid in my opinion, as both mechanic and role wise are too different.

    Xeno gameplay is more about trapping the enemy and buy time for age upgrades as well luring and capturing marines who go ahead of themselves early on.
    Vibing as: Dismas Hind.

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  2. #72
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    Shotgun won’t be nerfed, most likely scenario they’ll make the rifle better in a way it will be picked over the shotgun. Stop whining and deal with lt.

  3. #73
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    dont nerf buckshot pls its the only thing i use when i lag, i love me my no skill aim in general direction clickie

  4. #74
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    Tossing in my two cents here.

    I think a few people have said this before, but sometimes it feels like the only way to kill a beno as unga is WITH buckshot shottie PB + atleast 5 other marines blasting down the stunned beno. Everything else just does too little damage.

    From what Ive seen, and dont gut me, Ive never played SG but...SG just plain doesnt do enough damage to kill before epic gamer Ancient Warrior XX-402 grabs the SL and slinks off into the darkness. I feel like SG just sits in the front so Boilers and Lurkers actually have to watch out for gunfire.

    Yeah, sure, Spec can burst xenos down or, just by their very presence, force them to think about the weapons a Spec may have...but keep in mind that there are only four Specs per round. And chances are, the moment Spec is lunged by Warrior and dragged off, unable to do anything as our flimsy rifles bounce off their armor...
    All you'll find left of them will be a pile of gibs.

  5. #75
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    Honestly, my issue is less with how powerful buckshot is, and more with how versatile it is. Sure, dying to one lucky buckshot PB is annoying, but a lot of things both sides face are annoying. Ambush castes in particular often have no real counter other than the fact they have to get close and make themselves briefly vulnerable, and even then most weapons have little chance of actually killing them.

    The problem is, buckshot is also good at armour piercing, it's relatively good at armour shredding. Anything you can run up to and PB will either be seriously hurt or die. It doesn't matter what it is. Do you see a crusher and make a considered tactical decision about whether to risk reloading flechettes to deal damage to its armour? No. Just buckshot it. Flechette is trash bro. Oh no, the queen, the biggest and baddest xeno! Duh, just buckshot it and then smash that "xenos mad" macro.

    Most games of this sort are balanced around some kind of rock-paper-scissors mechanics. It's a really convenient design trick because it allows everything to be powerful while also giving everything a niche. This is generally true in CM as well, and there's some great examples of RPS balance. For this reason, I feel that the "no counter" argument is used way too often, often with the implication that every bad situation should be avoidable with individual skill. If good lurkers sometimes die to buckshot, I personally don't think that's a problem. If good marine players occasionally get hit by boiler neuro despite making no real mistakes, I don't think that's a problem. If good boilers sometimes die to a Fatty because the laser was behind a wall, not a problem. When shotguns (and buckshot in particular) entirely dominate every engagement and in game situation to the point where it basically invalidates the concept of defence as anything other than a last-ditch act of desperation, then I think it's becoming a problem.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surimi View Post
    When shotguns (and buckshot in particular) entirely dominate every engagement and in game situation to the point where it basically invalidates the concept of defence as anything other than a last-ditch act of desperation, then I think it's becoming a problem.
    kinda this

  7. #77
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    It's less that buckshot is strong, but more that all other weapons are weak unless in great numbers or cornered. Put three marines behind cades with M41As and a spitter against them and it'll be a forever stalemate. Spitter can plink away at the barricade, but ultimately won't be able to do much, marines can hit him anytime he peeks out, but all that damage done is negated by the spitter taking a quick nap behind a corner, so unless something drastic happens, the spitter can just keep them occupied indefinitely.

  8. #78
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    Just reduce buck damage, make it stun longer than slug/apply harder debuffs, so it still remains a strong CQC without instantly sending xenos to dchat. As for weapon balance M4 DPS is close to being alright, and if you had a fireline of slugs + M4, kills wouldnt be that hard to get. Honestly devs should just run a 24 hour test of how the game plays without buckshot.

    Right now the game is heading into a very cancerous direction - the recent buck buff so its effective vs armor was completely unneccessary, and shotguns being as OP as they are enforces this CBT meta we currently have + promotes lack of captures as a single PB is going to end you if you happen to miss a tackle, or decide to devour a marine, spit him ontop of an egg and he still point blanks you before the hugger stun applies. :clown:

    One easy way that could fix buck being OP is bringing back hipfire accuracy debuff, or introducing a delay between a marine getting up and being able to shoot his weapon.

    And to the people using "hurrdurr but xenos have OP this and OP that" as an argument - maybe there would be no need for half of these cancer mechanics and abilities if buck was actually balanced. Pretty sure buck is the reason the RG prae no-cast-time spray is back, and why neuro has to be as cancerous as it is. Perhaps finally removing buckshot would help the game improve.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Swagbag's Avatar
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    Think about this.

    Xeno players have many things that cannot be easily countered like acid spray, punch, fling, lunge, grab without a fucking shotgun. Nerfing buckshot won't make you win more, marines will always adapt within 1-2 weeks usually, at best you are probably changing the winrate percentage by a few percent after the storm in the first or second week. People will find the next best thing or keep using it in it's nerfed capacity, just like the MOU53. Or they will find ways to powergame maybe.



    Spoiler Spoiler:

  10. #80
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    Imagine being a xeno player and complaining about a weapon that has been nerfed constantly over the course of several years and is STILL the only viable option for marines, meanwhile xenos get across-the-board buffs and ezmode abilities like neuro gas, grab and fling, and screech.

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