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Thread: Why aren't CLs whitelist only?

  1. #21
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    I'd argue the onus for CL to become more interesting is on the staff team, but with the way things are right now if you start responding to faxes, you're effectively starting an 'event' which requires, IMO, ludicrous amounts of oversight. Mods, as far as I know, aren't even allowed to engage in minor disruptions to the round. Admins don't want to deal with the fallout of an event going wrong and giving the xenos/marines an "unfair advantage" to which everyone proceeds to boohoo about in dchat/OOC the next round. Even worse, someone goes on the forums and drops a staff complaint about it when in reality the admins don't generally get to handpick and vet the players who are part of these 'events' so that means that the admin is clearly automatically responsible for their actions (Which is obviously stupid). As long as the staff member gives someone CLEAR and CONCISE objectives that don't require them to break the rules I genuinely can't see the problem, but the climate of the player base isn't receptive to this kind of thinking because they believe staff is here to ONLY ensure the rules are followed and rounds stay within the prim and proper parameters of most rounds before them.

    tl;dr While staff should be responsible for making the CL role an x-variable in the round, the player base, for the most part, does not want an x-variable in the round because it means they might lose due to a rogue variable they could not have predicted and that's bad.
    Last edited by Corocan; 01-31-2020 at 01:29 AM. Reason: ai

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDexFiles View Post
    What's needed is a Secret Antag role, randomly rolled at round start.
    A few years ago I ran some tests with random antags starting at round start with traitor-like objectives and it didn't go well at all. I even tried announcing at round start that there "may" be a double-agent on-board and USCM should pay special attention and still no one cared or where cautious.

    Since CM is a combat focused server it's extremely difficult to add multiple layers other than combat mechanics to it. Combat generally takes up so much of ones attention, it's near impossible to then also pay attention to your own allies potentially being enemies. It's arguably the same issue when it comes to Roleplay with CM, since combat is so taxing on players, it's difficult for them to shift energy and focus towards role-playing a character. To bypass this limitation of relying on players to roleplay, you're forced to adapt mechanics to stop players from deviating away from roleplay. eg; clothing/armor/weapon/class restrictions and roleplay rules requiring staff enforcement.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fewher View Post
    A few years ago I ran some tests with random antags starting at round start with traitor-like objectives and it didn't go well at all. I even tried announcing at round start that there "may" be a double-agent on-board and USCM should pay special attention and still no one cared or where cautious.

    Since CM is a combat focused server it's extremely difficult to add multiple layers other than combat mechanics to it.

    I remember being give an antag role similar to what you're describing.

    It was Big red and we were secret CLF agents tasked with starting a mutiny, which went... somewhat well?

    I remember hijacking the fighting a pred and dying only to respawn as DeathSquad and SDing the ship.

    It's one of my more memorable rounds tbh, which with is why I think with randomly selected rounds and a Whitelist would be beneficial long term.

    It was fun for the most part, but it was a Manager event (I'm assuming you are who I think you are).

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  4. #24
    Member ThePirateSphee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corocan View Post
    I'd argue the onus for CL to become more interesting is on the staff team, but with the way things are right now if you start responding to faxes, you're effectively starting an 'event' which requires, IMO, ludicrous amounts of oversight. Mods, as far as I know, aren't even allowed to engage in minor disruptions to the round. Admins don't want to deal with the fallout of an event going wrong and giving the xenos/marines an "unfair advantage" to which everyone proceeds to boohoo about in dchat/OOC the next round. Even worse, someone goes on the forums and drops a staff complaint about it when in reality the admins don't generally get to handpick and vet the players who are part of these'events' so that means that the admin is clearly automatically responsible for their actions (Which is obviously stupid). As long as the staff member gives someone CLEAR and CONCISE objectives that don't require them to break the rules I genuinely can't see the problem, but the climate of the player base isn't receptive to this kind of thinking because they believe staff is here to ONLY ensure the rules are followed and rounds stay within the prim and proper parameters of most rounds before them.

    tl;dr While staff should be responsible for making the CL role an x-variable in the round, the player base, for the most part, does not want an x-variable in the round because it means they might lose due to a rogue variable they could not have predicted and that's bad.
    i respond to faxes all the time tho
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  5. #25
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    Whitelist system bad

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePirateSphee View Post
    i respond to faxes all the time tho
    Do they disrupt or change the round at all?

  7. #27
    Senior Moderator Dorkkeli's Avatar
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    Mods are not allowed to give cl anything more than fluff stuff to do, ie. Take pictures of colony and report back.
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkkeli View Post
    Mods are not allowed to give cl anything more than fluff stuff to do, ie. Take pictures of colony and report back.
    You people really dislike RP roles with a passion don't you ?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cakey View Post
    Whitelist system bad
    Not at all

    A white-list system encourages the player-base to work towards something goal oriented which leads to them bettering their characters and reduces rule-breaking long term.

    However a white-list system is completely dependent on who's approving players to it. A common problem you run into is how do you actually approve people for white-list other than realistically it being a popularity contest or bias-ism?
    This was a huge problem with Predator applications and synth applications back in the day. Sure there where "application requirements", but it was often just a basic filter to weed out lazy players who didn't want to write a story or couldn't spell to save their lives. The only proper way to manage a white-list system is for the people managing it to monitor and over-watch applicants in-game because as I said, a bullshit story and being a well-known name does not always make you suitable.

    So no white-list systems are not bad, but are often bad due to how they're managed and being run.

    Also just throwing this out there for the few comments complaining that no one ever gets anything unique or special from staff as CL.... It's a pretty huge burden for staff to have to watch the CL the entire game to make sure he's not fucking up or potentially antagging too hard with his special objectives/antag gear.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fewher View Post
    Not at all

    A white-list system encourages the player-base to work towards something goal oriented which leads to them bettering their characters and reduces rule-breaking long term.

    However a white-list system is completely dependent on who's approving players to it. A common problem you run into is how do you actually approve people for white-list other than realistically it being a popularity contest or bias-ism?
    This was a huge problem with Predator applications and synth applications back in the day. Sure there where "application requirements", but it was often just a basic filter to weed out lazy players who didn't want to write a story or couldn't spell to save their lives. The only proper way to manage a white-list system is for the people managing it to monitor and over-watch applicants in-game because as I said, a bullshit story and being a well-known name does not always make you suitable.

    So no white-list systems are not bad, but are often bad due to how they're managed and being run.

    Also just throwing this out there for the few comments complaining that no one ever gets anything unique or special from staff as CL.... It's a pretty huge burden for staff to have to watch the CL the entire game to make sure he's not fucking up or potentially antagging too hard with his special objectives/antag gear.
    Whitelist is still bad thanks to one more thing: Only report can punish grieffer with a whitelist. This makes whitelist a grieffing shield.

    Also... What about giving CL some objectives and letting it go? He kills half of the marine force shipside somehow? Well... Maybe time to react with nice ERT to recompensate, or some ebent groundside to weaken benos?
    You don't have to watch him 24h , did you watch any event run? I'm pretty sure that it's not the case with so many ebents being either one-sided, or simply silly and goofy.

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