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Thread: Marine gameplay feeling stale and unrewarding

  1. #11
    Whitelisted Captain
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    Xenos are always missing a few sisters every game, from the intended balance, so welcome to being a xenomain, enjoy your stay.

    Remember that you're only as good as the opposition you face. This game being so brutal and unforgiving is exactly the fun of playing marine for me. Hope we get more xenomains, so I could roll a marine more often.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  2. #12
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    devs fucked up the attrition game a long time ago and its been downhill ever since. Back in the day marines had to attack and overwelm xenos to win the game, now its geared for marines to hide in fob and wait for cas/rpg to kill the xenos. PFCs are not built for attrition they are built to overwelm the enemy. You see this in "metarushes" but once again devs fucked up the early game and made metarushes broken.


    edit: Also xeno armor is a complete disaster. It makes xenos with armor unkillable and xenos with broken armor literally paper. It completely unbalanced the game and made it feel like you are shooting 1 dude 80 times and doing nothing as a marine and make it seem like its waiting simulator for xenos. It needs to be compeltely removed.
    Last edited by MasterShakeEZ; 02-06-2020 at 01:47 AM.

  3. #13
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    I think it's two things, rather than one. A combination of how armor works and healing on any weed tile.

    I'd love to see, maybe just as a test a few times, just to see how it impacts the gameplay, xenos unable to passive heal from resting on weeds unless they rest within a certain radius of their nest, like it is with placing eggs.

    The main reason why marines can't wear xenos down is because xenos can hold chokepoints indefinitely until CAS/OB/tank disperses them enough for marines to just rush in and start blasting, is that xenos defending a checkpoint just retreat behind a wall without actually leaving the fight. If you make them only regain health/armor in a place far from the frontline, marines will eventually whittle them down if the xenos don't all retreat and flank, or some other fun tactic that takes the marines by surprise.

    Now I'm not sure how exactly it will change the gameplay, or how much it will shift the win ratio in marine favor, but it would certainly make PFCs with peashooters be a lot more meaningful. Makes a lot of difference if you hit a xeno a few times and they have to retreat way back, as opposed to just ducking behind the nearest wall. And as long as there's enough alternate routes, xenos can still hold a chokepoint while some of their force flanks the marines by surprise.

    But as I said, a change like this would require actual testing to see how it impacts the game, and probably would require some nerf on the marine side as well to balance it out.

    As a sidenote, one of you xenomains needs to step in and tell me how exactly does healing on weeds work and how quickly you can return to battle. From my perspective it's almost an instant, or at least a very short time, but I can of course be wrong.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    power creep into a select few roles on the marine side has all but ruined the jarhead experience

  5. #15
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    Nowadays, I try to avoid the main front line at anything remotely resembling a chokepoint and hover around in the flanks where you can usually find a handful of PFCs and a couple of xenos playing "pounce and buckshot". Only when the frontline has branched out into several different fronts or a wide area do I bother trying to participate, since fighting in chokes is basically a lost cause without CAS support or the tank (if you can even use them).

    Fighting at chokepoints as a marine is absolute garbage as anything other than JTAC or a spec, and frankly even specs are better biding their time rather then risking their asses when they aren't even that likely to get kills*. All you can really do is drop dots and hope xenos aren't brainy enough to run away from the painfully loud CAS sound or aren't aware of this thing called "direct fire with a fatty".

    On the flip side, FOB fighting isn't that rewarding unless xenos have lost enough momentum that marines can actually venture outside the cades and skirmish. Fighting in cadelines is mostly down to holding the fort while braindead/bored xenos suicide into the cadelines after half an hour of being unable to do anything, and fire support whittles down the xenos hoards because eventually all but the most skilled xenos will fuck up and get caught out eventually when you throw mortar shells/airstrikes at them 30 times.

    The only time fighting is rewarding is when there are moving battle lines and skirmishing, but this rarely happens since marines will usually wear themselves down on chokepoints until they are fucked, xenos (somehow) break or the inevitable xenos flank happens, and then either the round ends or marines get forced back to their cadelines without enough marines to actually hold the FOB against 30+ xenos - cue desperate last stand and evac.

    *protip - the best time and place for most specs is just offscreen from a choke as the queen screeches and xenos flood through the choke - A chaotic target rich environment, difficult for xenos to escape quickly, most of the ungas who could block your line of fire are conveniently on their asses. Get those sick frags, gamer.

  6. #16
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    Basically any fight in which xenos can duck behind the nearest wall to heal has to be solved by CAS/OB/tank or just straight up suicide unga rush, because plinking away at their health with M41As is all well and good, but even if you hit one ten times in the span of a minute, it's just wasted ammo because you're not really outdamaging their healing rate.

    The problem is that if you take away their passive healing, or restrict it to resting in the hive where nests/eggs are, they'll get steamrolled even without the big guns simply by marines wearing them out by continual spray & pray.

    I suppose it's not so bad, I mean the game IS about teamwork and tactics, and if you make a line of PFCs not have to rely on good tactics where it's a combination of a CAS/OB/explosives followed by an immediate push, it would be the big guns that become pointless.

  7. #17
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    Oh so after months of offline sleep nothing much has changed (jk)

    However some honest reprisal for the OP post: Players need to keep "playing into" the mood of CM. At its best, many of the keynote here do happen when the actions are treated as RP as well as being active and interested in coordination, beyond short term rewards. Xenofood is on point with this notion.
    And, yes, while the guns get the nerfs, players are forgetting how important your movement and accuracy is to the combat still. Running versus walking is a powerful nuance in the combat scenario.

    We need the patient players and those who share the wider scope of play this server offers

  8. #18
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    In regards to the suggested xeno heal radius: I propose two concepts.

    1. A general heal radius around a ovi'd Queen that is around the base heal rate.
    2. A much smaller radius around a deovi'd Queen (6 tiles at most) with a doubled passive heal rate.

  9. #19
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    Now I am going to say something abbrassive which I feel is true.

    The main reasons I've seen for squad marine gameplay feeling unrewarding resolve around K/D. If you care about K/D, you are missing the true purpose of the PFC. Sure, tanks, CAS, OB, SGs, specs, etc. get a lot of kills. But what happens to a spec when there's no marines to guard them? What happens to that one SG that keeps running in headfirst? What happens to an entire push if there is no marine checking the road with a MD to make sure that command's retarded plan to "hold yard" or "defend the bar" won't get every squad that's not sitting on their thumbs surrounded? What happens to a tank when it pushes in without support?

    Is there an issue with too much focus being put on specialist roles, like specs, SGs and vehicle crews? Certainly. Can CAS and OBs even happen without people lazing it in? Certainly not.

    But unless you learn to appreciate scouting, safety in numbers, suppression, assists or that wonderful feeling when two regular old PFCs just tag team a xeno to death together, yes, playing a regular ass squad marine will feel unrewarding.

  10. #20
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    The solution?

    Remove vehicles because they aren't needed in the current meta and compensate for it by giving marines more than 1 viable weapon - also work on map design

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