State of the Whitelist

[UnwaveringGrey]

Is it not possible to make it so that xenos don't see marines speech bubbles?...

Sounds like easy change, but up to this point it was this way and it always will. The arguments against this will be the same as Xenos being able to see your exact name behind a wall.

Take this with a grain of salt, because this comes from late night explorations of the tgmc code before the holidays, but I don't think this would actually be an easy change. I'm 95% sure that the code for seeing names of entities is buried in a mass of minified JavaScript, and I'm 60% sure that the speech bubble code is as well. I did a little looking to try and find that JavaScript, but it seems to be something that was inherited from another codebase.
If the code for that is in minified JavaScript it wouldn't be *impossible* to change, but it would be a nightmarish slog through thousands of lines of code. It was enough of a roadblock that when I but it I just shelved my work on my project and found a new project rather than trying to work through it.

Edit: Sorry to post off topic. I just wanted to get that out there...

[Lumdor]

Kinda stupid mister alt.

If he really didn't do anything bad while playing Whitelisted role, then he shouldn't have lost them. If he got this position and was granted automatically the Whitelist, then whitelist is just a fasade.
> Oh, you have great coding (and shit like that) skills, you got the head position, you might be spineless nerdo who can't RP for shit, or great RP mastermind, but take those whitelists who are here to prove that those who have it are capable at RP and nothing else.
> Oh, you have done something bad not as a whitelisted role? Let me take those whitelists, you didn't proved you can't RP good, but you need to be punished more than mere kick out of the head position.

Timelock is the future, old multiple mans.

Hey, maybe those devs who actually play the game would naturally unlock Pred this way, play it a bit and maybe decide to finnaly touch the pred code?

Imagine Synthetics whitelisted on other servers. While AI, or borg have to scratch their head if opening the door to Teleporter for some random greytider is not against Asimov Law 1, because he could teleport himself to space, or maybe not opening the door would break the Law 2, because it's not sure if he will teleport himself to space.
All pred have to have in mind: This Fob Engineer? Innocent. This Medic Marine healing wounded? Innocent? This lone, healthy marine somewhere? Worthy. This marine hugging me? Unoworthy.
Innocent - Can't touch this!
Worthy - Start the game already!
Unworthy - STAB TWIST KILL!
What CO has to have in mind? Hehe. Is this marine a direct threat to the operation and there is no MP's around? BE. Start of the round, set the primary LZ, came up with the one and only plan: Alpha - IO, Bravo - FoB, Charlie - Power, Delta - Scout. Brieffing 12:20. Came down, orders, "Goodspeed Marines", get back up, do exactly what SO and XO are doing.

If we can't trust people they can handle something like Pred, or CO, or even Synth after many hours of grinind certain roles that those three are based upon, then how each and every other server trusts anyone to be cyborg, or AI with only like 10, sometimes 20 hours of just playing greytider? While borg and AI can get many wacky and stupid custom laws and even if just standard lawset, they get into many scenarios, from beno infestation, trough hostile agents onboard (that are still crew) and ending on Wizards, or Blobs.
I would say that Station AI has way more impact on the round that Synth can ever have.

He lost his predator whitelist because Chaznoodles killed him while he was pred on a prison round. I was an admin at the time and spooky and I were talking in msay. He later brought up how could he fuck with Chaz and if I remember correctly he removed all of his armor values so they would do nothing, and then changed the ID thing on a claymore so it would blow up Chaz. Right after Chaz knew something was up and made an ahelp, and the rest is history.

[CABAL]

He lost his predator whitelist because Chaznoodles killed him while he was pred on a prison round. I was an admin at the time and spooky and I were talking in msay. He later brought up how could he fuck with Chaz and if I remember correctly he removed all of his armor values so they would do nothing, and then changed the ID thing on a claymore so it would blow up Chaz. Right after Chaz knew something was up and made an ahelp, and the rest is history.

While it is rather childlish move, it doesn't have much in common with Pred. He could be as well an Ancient Lurker and die via being outsmarted and fuck this up the same way.

I would argue, that it is example against autogranting whitelists.

Lets not be ridiculous saying that "If staff/devs can't play something, they don't know how to balance it". People who had "All Access" to play both marine and beno in the past made changes like Mutators, or famous "John Titor" weapons nerf. Or recently, everone can play TC, yet APC exist in state it exist.

All whitelisted roles should be timelocked and never auto-granted. You have somebody onboard who can tinker with code, but played less than certain ammount of time required for standar player to be trusted well enough with role that potentialy have power to change much in the round? Well... I don't know about you, but the answer to this question should be obvious.

[Fewher]

While it is rather childlish move, it doesn't have much in common with Pred. He could be as well an Ancient Lurker and die via being outsmarted and fuck this up the same way.

I would argue, that it is example against autogranting whitelists.

Lets not be ridiculous saying that "If staff/devs can't play something, they don't know how to balance it". People who had "All Access" to play both marine and beno in the past made changes like Mutators, or famous "John Titor" weapons nerf. Or recently, everone can play TC, yet APC exist in state it exist.

All whitelisted roles should be timelocked and never auto-granted. You have somebody onboard who can tinker with code, but played less than certain ammount of time required for standar player to be trusted well enough with role that potentialy have power to change much in the round? Well... I don't know about you, but the answer to this question should be obvious.

Once again let me re-explain this in a blunt way.

In the real world, game-devs and staff generally have access to all features of the game they run and manage.

This also applies to CM as well, despite it being a volunteer run game.
This isn't something odd, unusual or ridiculous.

But to really drive this home for you since you don't think his abusive action is related to a whitelist removal.
He was given whitelist due to his position - he abused said position - he was removed from staff (breach of conduct) - he was removed from whitelist due to his position no longer being held.

It's the same thing that happened to me, I essentially created the predator codes and whitelisting but was removed due to my actions afterwards.

It's not a hard concept to grasp, do bad things in a position of power and lose your special privileges.

[CABAL]

Once again let me re-explain this in a blunt way.

In the real world, game-devs and staff generally have access to all features of the game they run and manage.

This also applies to CM as well, despite it being a volunteer run game.
This isn't something odd, unusual or ridiculous.

But to really drive this home for you since you don't think his abusive action is related to a whitelist removal.
He was given whitelist due to his position - he abused said position - he was removed from staff (breach of conduct) - he was removed from whitelist due to his position no longer being held.

It's the same thing that happened to me, I essentially created the predator codes and whitelisting but was removed due to my actions afterwards.

It's not a hard concept to grasp, do bad things in a position of power and lose your special privileges.

Don't take me the wrong way, Mister Alt. I can grasp the concept of why he was kicked out of the position he abused (while I didn't keep the exact track how it was abused, I generally only remembered it was staff tools abuse). I get that he got Whitelist with the position, but then lost Whitelist with the position. But I can't grasp why Whitelist was auto-granted in the first place.
To test Pred/Synth you don't need Whitelist. Your admeme tools let you spawn pred and then posses it for example in Thunderdome. Isn't that true? Do you need Whitelist as admeme, otherwise you can't even touch Synth/Pred/CO? CO doesn't even have any unique gameplay mechanics. It's just XO with a gun he sometimes use to kill players on his own side. Not much testing here really.

I'm not arguing here that Dooky is innocent, or that he should keep those auto-whitelists. I'm arguing that Whitelists should be removed in favour of timelocks.
I'm also arguing that granting auto-Whitelists took entire concept of said Whitelists and throwed it down into dumpster way before anyone even though about replacing them with timelocks.

Again, since you seem too eager to jump into: "You stupid" conclusions...
Whitelists are flawed. Timelocks are better. Auto-granting Whitelists is flawed. Having to get said role as everyone else is better.

Instead of adressing this non-issue that was solved long ago, maybe we will finally talk on-topic?
Lets forget about Dooky, he isn't a problem that Whitelists have and as a "normal" player he has right to voice his opinion, no need for snarky comments, how it is "irrevelant". Do you have something to say about it, other than: "Oh no! My mapple syrup has become bitter, because you think that good timelock shows better how person will behave than popularity contest known as Whitelist!".

If somebody spent time to grind those timelocks, he damn deserve to atleast try. As I explained before, it is harder to be borg/AI on other stations that it is to be CO/Synth/Pred on CM and we are yet to hear about those massive waves of silicon grieffers who can't be trusted to obey Lawsets.

I'm all for giving mods/admemes tools to deal with Preds/Synths/CO's instead of: Report it.
I would feel way happier and "safe" knowing that there is always "benevolent" eye upon us all, where I don't have to just live with Preds/Synths/CO's slighty bending their rules. I don't want to be forced to create another report, because Pred found another loophole in his rules. Like (before Honor code change) where pred could just fuck around benos, got hit offscreen (or in darkness, outside of Marine sight) and then murderbone Unworthy prey who accidentally shoot in his general direction, all with other benos and marines on screen.

[Fewher]

I can grasp the concept of why he was kicked out of the position he abused (while I didn't keep the exact track how it was abused, I generally only remembered it was staff tools abuse). I get that he got Whitelist with the position, but then lost Whitelist with the position. But I can't grasp why Whitelist was auto-granted in the first place.

No I don't think you can as you've been explained this multiple times.
It's not a matter of you not being able to grasp the auto-whitelisting concept for head staff but rather you not AGREEING with the concept.

Again, since you seem too eager to jump into: "You stupid" conclusions...

I wasn't there before and that wasn't my point prior but yes, I'm now at that conclusion with you and that you're not interested in a discussion but rather you "don't agree with it so it's wrong!'.
I'm really not interested in entertaining you anymore since you're far more interested in low petty jabs and mislabeling this discussion to further your point.

[CABAL]

No I don't think you can as you've been explained this multiple times.
It's not a matter of you not being able to grasp the auto-whitelisting concept for head staff but rather you not AGREEING with the concept.

I don't agree with the concept. Is this a sin?

Yes, I'm now at that conclusion with you and that you're not interested in a discussion but rather you "don't agree with it so it's wrong!'.
Back to you Mister Stupid

Hmmm...

"don't agree with it so it's wrong!'

It's almost like I don't agree with something, I think it's stupid. I showed my arguments why it is stupid.
You agree with something, you don't agree that this is stupid. You showed your arguments why it is not stupid.

Who is now "don't agree with it so it's wrong!"?

Yes, I'm not interested in discussion about Spooky. Is this thread: "The Absolute State of SpookyDonut"?

Your move, leaf man.

[Imheretohelp]

I am locking this thread.

None of you can behave. Be better.

[CABAL]

I am locking this thread.

None of you can behave. Be better.

I will create 16 new threads.

Also sorry Dinkle Man. Sometimes I'm not myself.

[lmwevil]

i dont want anyone to have my whitelists or i'll never get the slots