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View Poll Results: Is the flame specialist woefully underpowered by comparison to the other choices?

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  • Yes

    24 68.57%
  • No

    4 11.43%
  • On the fence

    7 20.00%
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Thread: Flame specialist,Burn or Bust?

  1. #1
    Junior Member zzurge's Avatar
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    Flame specialist,Burn or Bust?

    I’m no sulaco Marine,but I’ve been around long enough to atleast see the different variants of flamethrower specialist,the current version seems drastically weaker and is the least picked specialist to my knowledge,people would rather become the FF machine grenadier over the pyro, is it just me? Or Does it need a rework?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Just L's Avatar
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    Flamer spec is extremely underpowered because fire in general is piss weak and more of a threat to marines than xenos.
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  3. #3
    Member Snooper44's Avatar
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    Blue flames were once something to be feared. Now they are a joke along with every other fire weapon. Any average spitter or boiler can put out a fire instantly. They are useless.


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  4. #4
    Whitelisted Synthetic Me_Bigsnail's Avatar
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    I find flamer spec nothing special mechanic wise, you will be finding yourself using your secondary more than your flamer in most scenarios.
    Fire is a double edge sword, god forbid if you flamed the entire path of retreat with blue fire or lit up a lad because you thought using your flamer on a runner was a good idea while marines are around.

    Overall I can call this a pretty lazy kit, dont get me wrong it can shine in the right hands, but why bother using a direct upgrade of a PFC kit when you're open to better options
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Grentex's Avatar
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    As many other people (including myself) have mentioned Pyro spec isn't bad per say. But it feels like you are just PFC++. Blue Flames that shoot in single lines aren't that amazing to warrant it as a spec kit. Esp. since xenos have actual ways to remove fire dots compared to back when acid spray didn't remove fire. Pyro doesn't even have that great fire resist even if you wear the armor.

    Not to mention, a fair amount of people who somehow get spec on a regular basis have pointed out that you could probably do better flaming by taking Scout kit and using flamer while cloaked because nothing stops you from doing that.
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  6. #6
    Whitelist Council Member Swagbag's Avatar
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    The main problem is in the hands of the spec.

    Flamer is a high skill floor weapon as Destrok ans Masamune has put it, same as the MOU53. It doesn't help that the scout spec can use a flamer while cloaked too. It's just other specs loadouts are easier to use. Keep in mind I rarely and almost never play spec though.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    It's because he has direct counters and fire doesn't work on benos like it does on marines. Pyro is amazing on HvH, but that's it.

    Quite frankly, mini-pyro PFC does a better job than Pyro Spec. Mini-Pyro doesn't waste any Req points. With 300 units of napalm in backpack alone (not counting tank already loaded in flamer, two strapped to backpack and one "gel") is enough to clear the resin and flame each Crusher charge and each gas. And there are always more mini-pyros who die to Ravs, basically making normal flamer fuel infinite.

    There is an issue of "Flame RNG", both benos and marines can sometimes enter flamed tile and not get on fire. While for marines it's like miracle on the battlefield, because even if they are immediately extinguished, temperature will boil them in their armor (while benos suffer no consequences after being extinguished, or even being on fire [outside weak burning]). Benos have incredebly big "crit" damage... Pool? It is not hard to notice that xeno who is damaged enough lies on the floor, then you can even PB it in this state and it will still be alive and will explode after few seconds, or survive on weeds. The same with flames, as long as beno isn't alone, they don't need acid spray.

    There are still few benomains who say that "underbarrel flamer" fuel is "dangerous" and it "scares" xenos off. What a bunch of BS. Unless directly sprayed, it doesn't stick to anything and even marine can dance on welder fuel flame with less damage than one acid spray does.

    Then there is issue with Ravs. As a spec no matter what kind, you will be targetted. All the Sanic Rav has to do is to run effortlessly into your blue flames, spit his bone fragments, hit you offscreen, run at you, charge once and run away. If he is RNG lucky, he will get your hand. No hand means that flamer can't be used. Worse, he can charge once and then use your stun to drag you into your own flames. You can't do anything about it. There is always 100% chance that Rav will be at frontlines.
    Sniper spec has a distance as his protection. Scout has his speed and cape. Grenadier has armor and nades that stun ravs. SADAR has SADAR. Poor Pyro doesn't counter anything, while every vomitor spitter, every boiler, every Praetorian, every bigger group of xenos have means to reliably extinguish xenos caught in flames.

    The whole concept boils down to the fact that only Pyro weapon is completly useless against 2 out of 4 T3's, they are not scared away by fire, 1 out of 2 T3's left is literally immune and the 1 T3 left has high HP pool, high enough to survive most fires on his own (even before going into crit on weeds). And the biggest baddie - Queen also is immune. If you are frontlining as Pyro spec, be ready to be targetted. And no, it is impossible for Pyro spec to not be on frontlines. Each and every other spec has a ways to use their weapons from distance, even on 2x scope range.
    I have seen many times that benos like warriors charge trough blue fire during screech, just to punch pyro behind their line, becuase they know that they will have enough time to charge back and go into crit next to boiler who will extinguish it.
    Last edited by CABAL; 02-13-2020 at 10:56 AM.
    REDEMPTION

  8. #8
    Senior Member Avalanchee's Avatar
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    It's the backpack that screwed pyro over. It effectively killed the three-weapon micromanagement (Flamer wielded, shotgun on suitslot, M41 on your back) thing that usually separated good and mediocre pyro players.

    Your loadout options are very limited. If you want to reliably defend yourself, you take a shotgun - trading the ability to chase and kill xenos you lit up and vice versa.



  9. #9
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avalanchee View Post
    It's the backpack that screwed pyro over. It effectively killed the three-weapon micromanagement (Flamer wielded, shotgun on suitslot, M41 on your back) thing that usually separated good and mediocre pyro players.

    Your loadout options are very limited. If you want to reliably defend yourself, you take a shotgun - trading the ability to chase and kill xenos you lit up and vice versa.
    Yeah, maybe, but even then you were just PFC with a bit stronger flames and jury rigged armor x fireman suit.

    Comparing to Sniper - Long range IFF "PFC" with inci and flak bullets + NVG.
    Grenadier - A bit longer range (miniscope sometimes) UGL without pulse rifle attached, but with bigger ammo count, something like "IFF" (nades over the head) and good armor.
    SADAR - Single most powerfull weapon, nothing like any PFC (no single use Panzerfaust-like shit for PFC's? That would be cool) can have.
    Scout - NVG, 2x Scope range, timed invisibility, mobility, tac binocs and inci rounds PFC.
    SG (Yes, even SG can compete with Pyro) - NVG (partial?), IFF, support, can't fuck up marines (short of pure IFF off griefing), can always attribute something even if it is a chokepoint and marines filled it fully, way better than Pulse Carabine + Smart Scope PFC. Also doesn't waste too much Req points and there is atleast 4 of them.

    None of them have direct counter to their main weapon and while SG and Sniper might struggle a bit against horde, rest has inci bullet spray, nades, or HE rocket to deal with it.



    And while I'm at it... I came with idea: Make Spec Flamethrower work a bit like IRL flamethrowers work. Just like on those old black and white tapes from actual Military Compounds. Single "Stream" of burning fuel. Then you can strip all those Flame immunities and make Pyro something like a mix between Automatic Fire SG and SADAR. Single target great damage, instead of kind of a one line AoE damage.
    Last edited by CABAL; 02-13-2020 at 01:25 PM.
    REDEMPTION

  10. #10
    Senior Member Avalanchee's Avatar
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    all flames should spread just like green flames with an option to switch back to the straight line flame



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