Yeah, what always stood out to me as a particularly busted ability the crusher had was how easy it is for one to open up a flank in literally ANY destructible terrain. Why bother with acid when a crusher can ram a reinforced metal wall a couple times and open up a new flank into the FOB?Originally Posted by Destrok
nope, my b
"Can't wait for the rework, it'll be a lot more fun to play as and against."
ye, hopefully
Rework isn't like a magic spell, that will repair everything. It will be like archer trying to hit the bulls eye on the target while blindfolded, only guided by whispers of both marine and benomains, ignorig them and then shooting basing on a mood.
IF you mean being stopped a bit as slow you down then ok I can't change your mind lol. But don't sit here and say moving one tile up or down is going to counter a marine bodyblock.Marines can't really "body block" they can only slow you down a bit. You know what you have to do when marine with a shotgun (or any) stands in your path? Move ONE (1) tile in other direction, change intent to "tackle", then click into general direction of a marine untill you either escape, or marine is stunned.
Im talking about the armor regen which still can be chugged down by marines rocking buckshot and slugs.You know why HP regeneration on Crusher is apparently so slow? Because Crusher has giga HP pool and without pheros it heals just as fast as a runner (probably).
a strain making the caste give a far superior ability than the base strain which barely does shit, IS a upgrade in my opinionAlso: Strains aren't supposed to be upgrades, they are intended to be sidegrades.
Im talking about the stomp ability... Shit damage stillShitty ability? Are you serious? Crushing walls, cades, marines, stomping those who are lying on the floor, it is all shitty? Stun it applies alone justifies its existance and it gives bone breaking damage on top.
IT doesn't even matter if you're a smart crusher or a dumbass, any marine that knows body block can kill crusher will automatically get in front of you and keep doing that as if they're a defense line
Being countered doesn't have to mean being instantly killed. All T3s are hard to kill in their own ways. The main problem with crusher is that it being hard to kill is dependent on its armour, and when that armour gets damaged the crusher has to make a choice between waiting for it to regrow (during which time you're useless and not helping the team) or choosing to carry on and probably dying. Sure, killing a crusher as a lone PFC would be nice, but in practice you don't need to kill it, just break its armour and it becomes useless.
I don't disagree. Again, the problem is that as soon as you stop charging you become very slow. If you break charge anywhere near marines they are going to punish you for being slow. You're going to end up breaking charges around marines because marines will dodge charges all the time, typically forcing you to break charge right next to them. Sure, you can slash them a few times as you retreat, or even try to tackle for more risk-reward, but there's a very good chance that whatever you do will take less time to repair than the damage they will do to your armour.
That's the problem with crusher. It's not that it's unplayable, or even that it's too easy to kill, it's that it's so reliant on a mechanic that requires a lot of sitting around doing nothing to use effectively. No other T3 has to play like that, they all need a bit of downtime but not the literal five minute breaks a crusher has to take.
I'm not sure it's relevant how crusher played two years ago. For one, that will have been before armour was added. Nowadays, it isn't possible to charge through multiple marines as we see in that video because, again, hitting a marine immediately breaks charge. If you did that now, you'd walk into the next marine and stand there trying to push them like a melon while the others immediately surrounded you.
I don't main anything, in fact lately I've been playing marine pretty much exclusively for the past week or two. But over that time playing as a marine, the thought has never crossed my mind that crushers are OP. Boilers, sure. Runners and lurkers, sometimes. Never crushers though. Maybe if you expect fire to be some kind of instant counter and are surprised when it doesn't work, but technically any xenos can briefly ignore fire if the rewards are worth it. It's just something to consider.
I sit here and I say that. Marine being pushed by beno enters certain "state" where he is "locked" from moving himself. In this state runners, or crushers could push you far and only after certain ammount of time you can sidestep yourself. This has something to do with code I guess. As crusher you can push marine tile, or two, sidestep and them move in previous direction, avoiding marine.
You should specify what you mean. Armor regeneration is most likely the same case as HP regeneration. Probably the same rate as other armored xenos, but Crusher has more armor than the rest, so he regenerates longer. Judging by the changelog, the more Armor you have, it will regenerate at faster rate.
Also: Armor is universal for each and every armored beno. If armor is the problem, why buff crusher? Why not change armor? Why is that beno enthusiasts always want to change something that has loose connection to the problem, not something specific? Just like with buckshot and slugs, benomains were crying "BUCKSHOT OP", but advocated for nerfing "SHOTGUN", so we are in this sad state of nerfed both buckshot and slugs for no reason. There were and there are gitlabs about beno armor. Even I made one myself, where both beno armor and marine armor is in shit state. Beno with full armor is unkillable, beno with no armor is a house of cards. This happens to every armored beno, Defender, Queen, Rav, Spitter... They follow the same principle.
... Straight upgrade as a goal were a thing of a past. Before strains were "Mutators", they were designed as straight buffs and they were. But in time, devs and admemes finally found out that straight upgrades to benos is a bad idea... Terrible idea. So then came "Strains", which in mind are supposed to be sidegrades. As I said, it so happen that both Defender and Rav have superior strains to their base caste, but Spitter, or Boiler, or Prae, or Burrower, or Sentinel, or Drone have proper sidegrades who change the playstyle, but aren't clearly superior in every situation to base caste.
They know that ONLY "bodyblock" will kill crusher. Nothing else. Even if you stop your charge next to marines and then go in the opposite direction, you will be able to charge again, to escape, before they will take half of your HP.
I explained above, that armor is bad in itself and requires change. Gitlabs about it are either ignored, or straight up dismissed. Armor isn't a problem of just Crusher, each and every beno who loses most of the armor is a wet tissue paper.
That is not the problem. That is "slight" drawback for doing it. I can brag about devmemes all day long, but some of them had to play CM a bit atleast and they noticed that crusher who can instantly cancel its charge is a bit broken. Again, Crusher is all about positioning. Did you know that as a Crusher on LV, you can charge trough beach west-east, or east-west, no stopping etc and then just escape in the same direction? You can't balance Crusher to be good everywhere. The mere concept of a Crusher beno makes it unable to work everywhere. Crusher isn't a runner, crusher isn't a lurker, crusher isn't a Rav, crusher isn't a Prae, crusher isn't any other beno, so he can't work in every scenario 100% best.
Then maybe, just maybe... Advocate for changing the mechanic that other benos also have problem with? Armor was unneeded addition to counter the fact that benos after each HP loss can just hop behind a rock and regenerate HP like a modern FPS hero. That was dumb, each and every bullet you shoot at beno was wasted when it fucked out at 25% HP behind said rock. Instead of making something like "Healing Pond" inside of a hive, where benos would have to go back to heal, they can do it everywhere, so armor was introduced. Not my fault.
Ahhhh... How many times I have to write it?
Time to explain it like to a preschool child: Yes you little naughty boy, crushers are in this not so strong state, but your favourite toy would become OverPowered just like it was TWO (2) years ago. Crusher then doesn't had any problem with bodyblocking, crusher then doesn't have to consider armor, all he had to do is to fuck out behind a rock and heal all of the damage in ONE (1) minute. All of those bullets you shoot? Doesn't matter in a minute!
IF YOU "SOLVE" PROBLEMS WITH CRUSHER THAT HE APPARENTLY "HAS" NOW, IT WILL BE JUST AS TWO (2) YEARS AGO! HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THAT SIMPLE LITTLE THING? CRUSHER NOW HAS THE PROBLEMS THAT CRUSHER BEFORE DIDN'T HAD! CRUSHER WITHOUT HIS "PROBLEMS" WILL BE NEARLY EXACTLY THE SAME AS TWO (2) YEARS AGO!
Judging by this quote, you can 100% say I think that crushers are OP. Just benomain things
Last edited by CABAL; 02-18-2020 at 11:53 AM.
Armour is fine.
Most castes don't have much armour to begin with, and are balanced around that. Most castes are not meant to tank fire and have ways to avoid it, whether through speed range or having some other useful ability which doesn't require them to be in constant combat. Most castes don't have to worry about armour until it reaches 60%, and even then it's fairly fast to recover and you can make the choice to ignore it without necessarily invalidating your role. Heck, some castes genuinely struggle to even lose enough armour to have to worry about it because of grace periods and passive regen.
Crusher and defender are the only castes that actually rely on their ability to tank. Defender is also dependent on armour, but it also has a bit more speed and some powerful damage-mitigation abilities which make losing armour less of an issue. Crusher is the only caste that relies on armour and yet has absolutely no way to deal with it. It can't avoid getting hit. It can't play more cautiously without not doing anything at all.
It's not an armour problem, it's a crusher problem. Part of the problem is just that armour is not very balanced when it comes to a caste with high armour. Ideally, grace periods should be based on absolute numbers rather than percentages, which would make crushers much more resilient to suddenly losing all of their armour in a matter of seconds. Failing that though, it could also be solved just by giving crushers a higher passive armour regeneration, without even touching the way armour works.
Surprisingly, yes. But then, I play xeno sometimes.
And you actually can't, or rather you can't reliably any more because, again, hitting a marine instantly breaks the charge.
So you'll be fine until you encounter two marines standing within a few tiles of each other, in which case you'll ram the first, break the charge and then not be able to build up enough speed to ram the second. Heck, it's even worse, because you broke charge when you rammed the first marine, every marine around now has a golden opportunity to try and block you before you start charging again
And that's fine. Having to make a snap decision about whether to try and continue a charge or retreat arguably makes crusher more interesting than just being able to plough through entire corridors without a thought, but it also makes charge far, far less powerful and there hasn't really been much given to crusher to compensate for it. Charge is easy to dodge, it doesn't do an exceptional amount of damage and it puts that crusher's armour at risk. It is, of course, good at breaking walls, but do you really need a T3 caste which specialises in fighting walls?
Why?
As far as I can see, armour isn't a problem. I have never once struggled with it or found its impact on games unfair or overly punitive except when playing crusher.
None.
Noone else is talking about crusher two years ago.
Make up your mind. Is armor bad, or is it WAD and anyone complaining is a benomain trying to take your shotguns?
Imagine a middle ground for a moment. Imagine that I actually agree with you about crusher needing some problems and weaknesses. Imagine that I agree that it should be possible to bodyblock a crusher, or to punish it by ruining its armor, and that these are necessary counters. Imagine that my argument is not that these things shouldn't happen, but that maybe they shouldn't be as trivial as they are now. Maybe crushers shouldn't have to worry about their armour so much that they are effectively taken out of most of the round. Maybe charging shouldn't be less effective and more dangerous than the core abilities of virtually any other T3 caste. Imagine that the comparison here is not between crushers now and crushers two years ago, but between crushers now and every other T3 caste now. Imagine not having to be obnoxious and patronizing on the internet.
Fortunately, you don't need to imagine. We can all live in that beautiful world together.
Best way to kill a crusher...
Play Xeno and stand behind it.
> Armor is not the problem:
Armor IS the problem. The end.
You obviously don't play xeno's enough to understand what im getting at about the bodyblocking. Pushing them one tile as a crusher won't do shit if they are going to push towards you constantly it ain't that hard to see why Crushers need a better way to deal with that dumbshit.
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