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Thread: Staff Report - 50RemAndCounting

  1. #1
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    Staff Report - 50RemAndCounting

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Chocolate_bickie
    Date of Incident
    February 15, 2020
    Your Character Name?
    Chuck Bicar
    Their BYOND Key
    50RemAndCounting
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    12:50 Central US time
    Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Investigate the situation
    Description of the incident
    I was a MP. During briefing a PFC climbed onto the podium and tried to take an item off the CO. I stunned them and arrested them for disorderly conduct.

    50RemAndCounting PM'd me and asked be what their crime and time was. I told them.

    Quite a significant amount of time later 50RemAndCounting PM'd me informing me I would be receiving a heavy warning, for not following arrest procedure.

    I argued that for the arrestee to be considered compliant they shouldn't be in the process of committing a crime. 50RemAndCounting disagreed, stating that I should have made a different judgement call in that situation.

    I can't quite remember what was exactly stated then but it was along the lines of I should have applied hooliganism instead of disorderly conduct, even though disorderly conduct and that was a rule 3 violation.

    So I have two major issue with this.

    1. 50RemAndCounting never asked me about my side of the incident. They came to conclusion I needed a warning without talking to me and the only reason for the above PMs was because I made an attempt to defend myself. A large amount of time passed between the original ahelp and me being told I was getting a note, which suggest they had plenty of time to ask me why I didn't follow Arrest-Compliant subject.

    2. I'm not sure if there is a headmin ruling on what counts as a complaint subject. My opinion is that to be compliant a subject must not be fleeing or committing a crime. The PFC I arrested was removing an item from the CO mid-brief. That is an ongoing crime. You could argue that I should have spent 10 seconds typing out a warning to get on the ground because your under arrest for disorderly conduct, however by that point the PFC could have taken the item and made off already. Therefore I believe 50RemAndCounting interpretation of marine law is wrong, or atleast not valid enough for a note to be issued.
    Evidence
    Adminhelps between me and 50RemAndCounting. Assuming it's okay between 50RemAndCounting and the marine I arrested might shed some light as well.
    How you would punish the accused
    I just want my note removed.

  2. #2
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    I will pull the logs in the next 24 hours.

  3. #3
    Whitelisted Captain 50RemAndCounting's Avatar
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    As the "quite significant amount of time" part suggests, I was busy investigating the incident by further discussing with the arrested marine and piecing together what happened. Based on what I've found and/or personally witnessed, you've indeed wordlessly flashed and cuffed the offending marine who was standing still on the podium. The marine was blocked by other persons on the podium and the railing and a window from all sides, so they were literally unable to run away from you in any capacity whatsoever if you had ordered them to cease what they were doing.

    Had it been something more serious - as I had explained to you in the ahelp PMs - then it would have been reasonable for you to directly step in and stun the suspect. For example, a marine forcefeeding another marine after repeated warnings not to do so (hooliganism), a marine disarm tackling other marines to cut the req line (disorderly conduct) etc. Given the specificness of this exact situation that had happened, and me not finding any evidence pointing to the arrested marine being told to get off by anyone, and based on your recent note history, I've issued you the warning I had given to you and explained to you in ahelps.

  4. #4
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    Since it's relevant to this report could I also have my note history posted.

    Also I forgot to put under which staff protocols were broken ''1. Send a personal message (PM) to the violator asking them to explain their actions'', which is covered under the first issue

    1. 50RemAndCounting never asked me about my side of the incident. They came to conclusion I needed a warning without talking to me and the only reason for the above PMs was because I made an attempt to defend myself. A large amount of time passed between the original ahelp and me being told I was getting a note, which suggest they had plenty of time to ask me why I didn't follow Arrest-Compliant subject.

  5. #5
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    Logs:

    Incident logs:

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    PMs logs:

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  6. #6
    Retired Manager
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    Players notes:

    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by AcuteCircle; 02-16-2020 at 07:51 PM.
    Former staff, also former Synthetic senator.

    Now just a shitposter and lurker.

  7. #7
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    Alright so having reflected on this overnight I should have warned Lauren before arresting her. Even if she wasn't compliant she wouldn't have been able to escape, something I hadn't noticed at the time. I agree with 50RemAndCounting that the note is valid.

    However, you didn't PM me to ask me about my side of things. From my perspective there was a good 20 + minutes between when you first contacted me and when you told me I would be receiving a note.

    [12:13:04]ADMIN: PM: 50RemAndCounting/(Sofia Racic)->Chocolate_bickie/(Chuck Bicar): Thank you
    [12:35:34]ADMIN: PM: 50RemAndCounting/(Sofia Racic)->Chocolate_bickie/(Chuck Bicar): Hello, after conducting a more thorough investigation it has come to my attention that you violated the arrest procedure while brigging Lauren Hastings. You aren't supposed to wordlessly stun and cuff suspects before even determining if they were compliant or not. Due to your previous notes history you will be receiving a heavy warning for this. Further offences will likely land you an MP jobban.

    Even if my explanation wouldn't have changed the outcome, that is not always the case. In addition, it is required under staff protocols.

    ''1. Send a personal message (PM) to the violator asking them to explain their actions'', which is covered under the first issue.''


    Part of the reason I made this report was because came to a conclusion without caring if I could explain my actions. Whilst my actions were overzealous in this situation, there have been times for myself and other MPs when an mod has stated we broke marine law but have successfully argued that we didn't. That is why protocol 1, in my opinion, exists.

    Anyway I won't be posting in here anymore unless someone asks me a question, I leave it to a mod manager to handle.

    Tl,dr: I did a bad, note is good. I believe 50RemAndCounting broke protocol 1.

  8. #8
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    I agree. Staff should allow the relevant parties to give their side on the issue; they shouldn't be applying warnings without giving players the opportunity to explain their actions. I suppose you sort of had a back-and-forth after they stated they were noting you, but at that point the decision had been made.

    Resolved; I will speak with 50Rem about getting the perspective of all relevant parties before making decisions. As recognized by the player, the note is valid, so it will stay.
    Trial Moderator: 4/18/19 - 5/2/19 / Moderator: 5/3/19 - 10/1/19 / Senior Moderator: 10/2/19 - 12/26/19 / Trial Admin: 12/27/19 - 1/11/20 / Mod Manager: 1/12/20 - 4/18/20

    Cerwick/Balakura/etc
    Discord: noah#7322

    Former staff member and long-time CO Council member, now I just wave my boomer cane at people when I want something to complain about.

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