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View Poll Results: Are rounds too short now?

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  • Yes they need to be longer

    101 78.29%
  • No they are just right

    24 18.60%
  • No they need to be shorter

    4 3.10%
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Thread: Rounds are too short now

  1. #21
    Dev Team ThePiachu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJG View Post
    snip
    The period when the SD mechanics were replaced with 20 minute timer literally had a drop of average round time by about half an hour. Mutators and weapons rebalance are rather fresh and they do seem to have an impact on the round, but I'm guesstimating they might be shaving off about 10 minutes, not ideal, but nowhere near close to the original drop.

  2. #22
    Dev Team ThePiachu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spookydonut View Post
    That's actually interesting, previously rounds seemed longer because of long almayer seiges. That being the case the best approach is likely to try to prolong the midgame as that's what players enjoy the most.
    Yeah, that's probably what we'll be aiming to do. Midgame is where the fun is at!

  3. #23
    Whitelisted Captain ExGame's Avatar
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    For the issue of marines dying in just a few slashes either due to IB or organ damage I simply think we need to re-add the actual Peridaxon and QC which treated the ailments and not just simply stalled them. Now of course doctors will then start to have repetetive work of only fixing bone breaks, but that might just be what doctor is all about. Because when a marine has to go up due to IB/organ damage then that also means one less marine on the ground which equals to an easier xeno steamroll. And when you simply splint the marine into a full body cast it still hinders them massively via residue pain and slower movement speed, so even if a medic gets to treat a marine with broken bones they slow the marine advance.

    In case of end-game, it could simply be a objective marines have to defend from xenos before the round can end, maybe re-add the SD and flesh out the room. There's now 3 options when it comes to the SD. SD blows up: tie. Marines kill aliens before SD blows: marine major. Xenos break the SD: xeno major. When you flesh out the SD room and maybe incorporate it into the CIC it won't be as monotone to have defense there all the time but you actually have choices when it's that big.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Madventurer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePiachu View Post
    The period when the SD mechanics were replaced with 20 minute timer literally had a drop of average round time by about half an hour. Mutators and weapons rebalance are rather fresh and they do seem to have an impact on the round, but I'm guesstimating they might be shaving off about 10 minutes, not ideal, but nowhere near close to the original drop.
    That sounds rather low, but since it's a guesstimate and it might be the effects of both SD changes and mutators and weapons, it sounds plausible enough.

    That being said, we have reached a breaking point where the round duration changes of even 10 minutes are massive compared to the old ones and the statistics may not accurately represent that.
    I recommend figuring out a rough time for pre-deployment time which is not exactly the most intensive part of the game and then seeing the percentage changes with that subtracted.
    Tyson 'Bunny' Sphere


  5. #25
    Whitelisted Captain FGRSentinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJG View Post
    I would say it has more to do with the xeno mutator power. FOB defenses used to be more effective and it would take xenos a bit longer to break through. Now, defenses usually get steamrolled in a few minutes.
    Almayer defenses used to be longer but they were also "even" for longer. Now Almayer defenses usually fail completely and xenos would win if the timeout was 30 instead of 20 minutes.
    I can't begin to count the number of "draws" we had were everyone except one or two guys were dead when the timer runs out. That really isn't a draw in my book, thats a xeno win.

    Edit: When FOB defenses are stronger and don't break, xenos will usually back off and allow marines to regroup at which point they will push out again with renewed vigor. That used to happen all the time, but since mutators it happens practically never. As soon as the Xenos show up at the FOB its usually over.
    This is basically it. Marines don't really bother with the FOB siege anymore unless Alamo is in transit and they have no choice since it's an exercise in futility when even the slowest xenos can outrun a CAS/OB strike and Boilers can gas half the FOB at Mature. The last time I remember the Marines repelling an FOB assault was pre-mutators when CAS was used to drive the Xenos off long enough for the Marines to regain the momentum.
    Retired CO Councilor (Winter 2019-Spring 2020, Winter 2020-Spring 2021)

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  6. #26
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    I mean, why would marines hold a FOB, one of their delay mechanics put there so marines have time to recover, when half of it can be covered by one boiler gas bomb?

    That, combined with Queen Screech, and the only option is evac.

    Either a removal of wider gas and mutators, or marines being given better delay mechanics / movement ability (Tank, APC, paratrooper drops, better medevacs, etc) would be great. As much as I like DEFCON, until its fixed, ARES update gave marines a hope of turning the round back since it kept giving us better and better supplies (like spec kits and FOB supplies) later into the round which allows us to hold much better.

  7. #27
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    Cades are also just not good anymore period. You can't shoot over them, and a Elder Lurker can destroy even a barbed cade with 4 slashes while taking almost no damage itself thanks to mutators.
    Defending is simply not viable anymore. You either bum rush the hive as early as possible or die.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJG View Post
    Cades are also just not good anymore period. You can't shoot over them, and a Elder Lurker can destroy even a barbed cade with 4 slashes while taking almost no damage itself thanks to mutators.
    Defending is simply not viable anymore. You either bum rush the hive as early as possible or die.
    You ask me, I think it is more that people are scared/unwilling to experiment with different defensive layouts than it is the fact that marine defenses are no longer all that useful.

    On a map like Big Red, you got a fair bit of open space to work with. Yet every time like clockwork, they use that space to make the same generic defense time and time again, then complain that it doesn't work all that well due to the new updates in place.

    You COULD just try to be creative and build with the cade limitations in mind to make defenses that behave differently other than the old "just build in a straight line until you run out of metal or you hit the other wall". Seriously, being engineer is about being creative, utilizing your resources as carefully as possible while ensuring that whatever you build would delay an enemy advance as long as possible. It doesn't have to stop them OUTRIGHT, but if you can make something that'll force them to maneuver YOUR WAY instead of THEIR WAY, then your defense works.

    Hell, that is the very basis of certain tower defense games, where sometimes in order to maximize the effectiveness of your defenses, you need to build in a way that won't entirely stop a hoard from breaching your defenses, but rather make them wander through a gauntlet of pain and suffering, if they even survive it in the first place, that is.

    Course, any attempt to make anything creative and even a bit risky often just results in people either building over it and ruining the design's purpose, or just ripping it down and calling you stupid while the same person calling you names misuses plasteel and makes a massive wall of them because they ran out of metal to make rows of barricades with... Then they demand more plasteel instead of making use of the 150 sandbags that are sitting around unfilled at LZ1...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renomaki View Post
    cades
    If you don't make a continuous wall, the xenos simply walk through it after gassing or screeching you and proceed to absolutely kill everyone. With that limitation in mind, you must make at least one continuous wall behind which the marines will generally stay, as being outside them will result in inevitable death. Cades outside of this continuous wall are not only useless but actively detrimental, as the xenos will simply walk around them and they will block bullets and provide cover for them. Any sort of maze-like structure will cost far more metal than a simple wall and will, at best, be of equal effectiveness as the xenos will simply cut through it instead of running through its twists and turns, and again the time saved by it is useless because the cades which make it up will serve as cover for the xenos.

    There is no level of creativity which can escape these limitations. If the marines are not behind a fully intact wall, then a screech will result in a breach and wholesale slaughter. Anything in front of that wall serves only to provide cover to the xenos, and anything behind it only serves to impede marine movement and get them trapped in boiler gas. You can play with the shape of that continuous wall a bit to try and create better firing lines, but at this point there is essentially nothing else that can be done that is in any way effective.

  10. #30
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    Currently, theres no good defense other than 2 line cades.

    Theres nothing else thats viable.

    The game is currently in Meta State, in the literal sense. Nothing else is viable. If your not playing the perfect game, your gonna lose very very hard, there is no forgiveness. The game is playing like a big man wearing a belt 3 sizes too small, its too tight. No loose area to play around in. This playground has been turned into a theme park ride. Instead of everyone gathering together to play a game in the sandbox, were riding a roller coaster. Everyone buckles up, and follows the rails. Welcome to the CM-13 ride on disneyland, follow your path, and in 5 minutes, the ride ends right where it begins. Ready to ride again?

    I like roller coasters, but i played CM-13 for the sandbox. The game was loose and wobbly, but that was its niche. Sometimes, the game would drag on for too long, but it was never the worst thing in the world.

    And, because i love extra credits: Power Creep. Theres so many other good videos, but here it is. No matter what happens, We are seperated into two games.

    Pre-mutator Xeno, Post-Mutator xeno.

    Everything now has to be overhauled to meet the new line on the graph. Medical/ requistions/ engineering/ hacking/ delivery/ movements/ etc. And when i say everything, i mean. EVERYTHING. backpacks, vendors, crates, power, door timing, MP punishments, how long it takes to eat food, how nutrition is dealt with.
    The core-core gameplay was changed, so everything needs to shift, or eventually will be shifted.


    Aliens are stronger, so we need stronger guns. We need stronger armor to stop stronger guns. People without armor are getting insta-killed, so lets give them more survivability or movement. Now every other person is carrying shotguns because its too strong, starting weak aliens need to be stronger. Survivors need more firepower to deal with starting aliens. Walls are too weak, we need stronger walls. Walls are now too cheap, and engineers build too many, walls cost more. Not enough metal in the map now, engineers get more metal. Now theres too many barricades and tables.

    The spiral is real, and its gonna happen.
    Last edited by KingKire; 01-14-2019 at 10:38 PM.

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