User Tag List

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 32

Thread: APCs Feedback, Commentary, and Spitballing

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    APCs Feedback, Commentary, and Spitballing

    I've had a chance to play several rounds with the APC, both as crew and non-crew. I thought I'd give some thoughts on it.

    Feedback:
    As anything other than a support vehicle, this thing massively under-performs. Right now everyone from PFC to the actual crew quite commonly make the mistake of assuming it can lead a charge. It can't, it can barely defend itself. Honestly a single lurker could probably destroy it without much trouble. On a larger map it might be able to flee.

    This is, with some balance issues, mostly fine. It could do with some IFF capabilities, especially since its guns don't do much.

    Driving is a bit janky, mostly the same issues as the tank. The speed is a problem in most cases, as there's rarely a long, 3 wide corridor to drive down. Haven't had a chance to see it on Corsat, and when I watched it on Trijent marines were immediately penned into the LZ2 area. I'm sure on these two maps it'll perform better.

    Driving into plasteel cades counts as a "crash" as far as the occupants are concerned. Maybe this is intended behavior.

    The lack of external sound is a major hindrance to the crew, and also kind of unsettling.

    You can't tell how damaged it is without getting out, which is a little annoying. Also sometimes movement is arrested for unknown reasons?

    Nearby marines don't benefit from Issue Order, which seems like a benefit that's very desirable for a support vehicle (especially if you took the command one).

    Needs some sort of zoom function for Driver/Gunner. Without sound, you're basically driving around blind and deaf. Suggestions on gitlab already asking for a tac-binoc function for the command version.

    Suggestions for Marine Strategies:
    Standard Module:
    I think the max occupancy is 8, including crew. So you at best have a 6 man team. You can load crates inside, tried to see if Icould load a sentry/mortar in but crew weren't interested in testing that. 100 Sandbags + Sentry + a couple engineers and a Smartgunner and you could have a nearly instantly deployed position. I think this would be good for Containers/TFort on LV, Near Chapel on Big red. Also, a crack squad could use this to rapid flank on maps that encourage flanking and also have a 3 wide-corridor.

    Command Module:
    You have an overwatch console, and hopefully an SO volunteers to man it. Your max occupancy is reduced (I thnk). Many people so far consider this setup to be the worst option, and I have to agree. A really coordinated Command team might be able to pull off something, but this thing doesn't even have a radio inside, so if you lose comms, the LT might as well be outside giving orders. Honestly I'm not sure what the strat would be here. Dev Suggestion: Have the SO be in the APC the same way the TCs are in the tank.

    Medical Module:
    This has been the most common variant chosen so far. Field surgery is very nice to have. Crew MUST lock the APC doors if they take this. Every wounded marine in a 10 tile radius will attempt to enter. All to often I see the crew getting bored and driving to the front in this model, despite having a doctor (or synth) inside. In my opinion, if this variant is chosen, command would do well to order a field hospital to be setup somewhere that current meta wouldn't normally consider for a full base. E.G. Set up at Tfort if caves being pushed, set up at junction north of Engineering annex. Some sandbags, a turret, and medics could be pretty comfortable treating wounded.

    I haven't seen an APC win for the marines in the same way as the Tank can. Guns are far too weak to do damage to crusher/queen. It could MAYBE take out a prae that was stupidly overconfident and alone. The key to using it effectively is going to require coordination across multiple departments or squads. Personally, I love the thing. Never been interested in the tank, either you have things to shoot at, or you're waiting to have things to shoot at. The capacity for unique strategies and divergent gameplay makes the APC an excellent addition to CM, but the high skill cap and need for marine support is going to quickly give it a reputation as hot garbage. Also, can't really compete with an LTB.

  2. #2
    Ancient Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2019
    Posts
    575
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It trash tier for one reason, cant get LTB-TOW. No really that is MASSIVE considering it one of the best options for murdering queens.

    Otherwise,
    standard: Turn it into a full logistic piece because the maps are just not going to be ever big enough to justify an APC or truck, unless you like 4000x4000 maps murdering the server solo. Sure people will say 'but.. bu.. I will use it at as a taxi and all!' bullshit, no ugna is waiting for a taxi, shit they are more then happy to become fresh larva or an other kill for lurker gang. They rather die then wait and die of boredom.

    command: Literally the CO bus, only used by COs that want to overwatch on the field. Basically a meme choice. It is just so meh but at the same time still has a distinct purpose. I cant ever say it literally pointless becuase overwatch for a ground commander can be very powerful but at the same time you need to coordinate to make the magic happen.

    medical: Best pick if picking APC, who doesnt like an armored field hospital able to scope up broken hearts in the field and pop out fresh rines.


    APC-armament: It needs more choices and strong enough choices. If the flak had a slug stun effect to tier 1+2 it be useful, if it was replaced with a glorified MG for primary it be useful. As is the APC is just a trash. Though honestly I think it and the tank need a strong buff on primary weapons to make them stronger but that an other story.

  3. #3
    Primordial Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,902
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    APC is too fresh to give any specific feedback.
    Right now each and every retarded marine is drawn inside APC like a fucking moth to a candle. They just can't help it. Most of them is 100% content with sitting inside for whole OP. Imagine that, in this state it is worse that sitting in Dchat, yet some people are enjoying that stupid thing, like a fricking cat who got a cardboard box and choosed to sit inside, despite all kind of toys, food and other cats to play around.

    Entire hive is balanced around the Tank, taking APC is just handicapping yourself. TC's will treat APC as tank, PFC's will treat APC as a tank, Bald benos will treat APC as a tank, decent benos will just solo the fucking thing.

    Whole update was just nerf to the vehicles because of that "momentum" mechanic. While each runner, lurker, fucking Queen and Crusher can instantly side step (even from charging), tank and APC have to fight with this. If Larvae could do any damage, it would be perfectly capable of soloing both vehicles.
    Without "Barbed Wire" armor for tank and "Gun Ports" for APC, benos just demolish those cardboard "vehicles" who are in reality using The Flintstones technology of crew inside using their feet to move it around, since both of the vehicles can be outrun by marine (in terms of tank, even heavy armor marine). Or something like barbed wire/gun ports, because really, just look at one round with them. Clear Nerf.

    I think that both Medical and Command variants of APC are pointless. What OW console on the planet/APC is any better (or sidegrade) to OW console in the Almayer? On Almayer you are safe, you have access to Tac Map, security camera console, you can instantly and privately discuss any strategy (like ones that could be described as "Gambit") etc.

    Medical module... Surgery table and Sleeper. How... Useless. What is it different than Ghetto surgery at the LZ? Maybe a very, very small chance of failure for one step of a surgery (because it's made on roller bed, instead of surgery table). Other than that? Sleeper? Like Doctors use it on Almayer. Broken heart isn't that common. If somebody was revived 10 times, he most likely have each and every bone broken, IB and organ damage, he choosed to stay and die. Other than that, poor shmuck got bad RNG and buckshot PB to the chest.

    It's 100 times better to get standard module that can fit 8 marines + 2 crew, transport them safely to LZ, drop them off, pick new marines who just deployed, or get bored of FoB duty and then drive back to the frontlines, not worrying about stranglers on the road. APC could just roam between LZ1 on big bread and Bar FoB. This is the purpose of APC. To help marines on those bigger maps where you simply don't have resources, time and marines to build and maintain safe routes. Like on LV where marines cade LZ1, Nexus, whole Hydro Road and then Hydro. After that (depending on beno resistance) they might make tfort outpost, or just straight up cade Containers. This is where APC is not needed. But on Trijent, or CORSAT, or ICE, or even Big Red, you won't make those supply lines.

    Retarded TC's will still treat APC like tank (and retarded PFC's will still treat is as Tuna Can), those who will roll it 3/4 times will finally find out that APC Crew role isn't to fight, so they will immediately flock back to Tank, with APC long forgotten, till some baldo will roll TC and pick it up again, cementing marine defeat, because whole gameplay is and always will be balanced around the robust Tank TC's, as everything on marine side is.

    Tank must be removed. Combat Loaders and Trucks (that exist alongside previous "vehicles") must be introduced.
    Last edited by CABAL; 02-18-2020 at 12:02 AM.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    46
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    TC's will treat APC as tank, PFC's will treat APC as a tank, Bald benos will treat APC as a tank, decent benos will just solo the fucking thing.
    This is a good summary of every round I've played with APC.

  5. #5
    Ancient Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    572
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post
    It trash tier for one reason, cant get LTB-TOW. No really that is MASSIVE considering it one of the best options for murdering queens.

    Otherwise,
    standard: Turn it into a full logistic piece because the maps are just not going to be ever big enough to justify an APC or truck, unless you like 4000x4000 maps murdering the server solo. Sure people will say 'but.. bu.. I will use it at as a taxi and all!' bullshit, no ugna is waiting for a taxi, shit they are more then happy to become fresh larva or an other kill for lurker gang. They rather die then wait and die of boredom.

    command: Literally the CO bus, only used by COs that want to overwatch on the field. Basically a meme choice. It is just so meh but at the same time still has a distinct purpose. I cant ever say it literally pointless becuase overwatch for a ground commander can be very powerful but at the same time you need to coordinate to make the magic happen.

    medical: Best pick if picking APC, who doesnt like an armored field hospital able to scope up broken hearts in the field and pop out fresh rines.


    APC-armament: It needs more choices and strong enough choices. If the flak had a slug stun effect to tier 1+2 it be useful, if it was replaced with a glorified MG for primary it be useful. As is the APC is just a trash. Though honestly I think it and the tank need a strong buff on primary weapons to make them stronger but that an other story.
    Yeah from what I have seen, the APC being more oriented towards support does not make it anywhere near as good as the tank, in terms of pulling it's own weight. Even before LTB-TOW on the tank, the tank can be reasonably effective with basically any set of weapons (besides the flak cannon).

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Give it a mortar...

  7. #7
    Ancient Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    572
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    Give it a mortar...
    Honestly not a bad idea. The APC needs something that can stun xenos, otherwise it's an easy target for a single young runner.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Posts
    13
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    During a round, someone in Dchat proposed using the APC as a mobile supply drop target; where the RO could just fire off supply drops near/on the APC itself.
    No need for coordinates, just lock on to the APC and supply drop crates will just drop near it.
    Or something to that effect, it's been a few days and I can't remember how the rest of it went.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I got to play as VC on Solaris Ridge. I would first like to list down my observations as both driver and gunner and then possible suggestions.

    Started round with the aim to take APC to run safe transports and evac wounded from front to FOB thereby reducing deaths to flankers.
    APC Variant Selected: Transport APC
    Rationale: More troops could be transported as against medical APC. Medical APC allows 5 members where we have 2 VCs, 1 doctor, 2 ungas. Transport APC allows 10 members: 2 VCs, 8 Ungas. So it made sense to run transport with normal APC.


    The round proceeded with Main FOB at LZ1, Bar FOB and filtration caves fighting south of chapel. We were running safe transport from FOB to Bar to Front and back, getting wounded to LZ in loads.

    APC Driver: Started with being APC driver. APC startup speed feels very slow. Moving 1 tile is extremely slow. With momentum it becomes decently fast but on maps like Solaris there isnt that much 3x3 straight lanes so it ends up being a slow transport overall. I had some lag spikes too while driving(could be my internet I was connected to my mobile hotspot instead of Wifi) which caused me to crash in walls due to momentum mechanic and it would hurt wounded people inside more. Having capacity of 8 people but with seats only for 4 doesnt make much sense as others will get harmed in case of crash.

    APC Nemesis: Local Runners
    While going out from FOB to bar, we would encounter 1-2 runners and a lurker who would slash the APC. Initially we tried to fight it by rotating there. Seeing its pointless since they are fast enough to move, we started ignoring them and focus on transporting marines and make repairs every 3 runs to keep APC healthy. Overall its very easy to take down APC.

    APC Gunner: APC gunner is very underwhelming to play with dual flak cannon and both slow firing MG neither able to protect against small xenos nor able to damage bigger xenos due to low damage. When marines were around we couldnt fire due to FF concerns making its role as support vehicle very very limited.

    We kept running regular runs and asked command multiple times to make announcement to take ride in APCs as there were runners and lurkers near medical(~1-2 Runners and 1-2 lurkers were there). We ended up saving a lot of marines on those paths.

    Marines were losing at front and xenos started pushing back marines. Command ordered to retreat to FOB since bar had only 1 cade line and it would have been difficult to hold the full xeno horde there. We were at FOB. We drove very fast to front, noticing abandoned bar on the way to front. We picked up ALL the wounded including Spec and SL and provided limited cover fire for marines to get in and started driving back to Bar FOB. We stayed at Bar for more marines to get in. But some didnt want to get in so we went back to FOB with some healthy marines on ground who were retreating. Overall APC helped GREATLY in retreating to FOB from front since we were able to get most wounded out. Those who chose to fight did not make it.

    We started repairing APC thinking of providing limited fire support but queen breached FOB from North FOB or Tcomms side( dont remember ) and killed us VCs and the apc while marines were outside aerodrome holding cades.

    That was how the round went.

    APC Strategy: I felt running safe transport was the optimal strategy for the APC and we chose the right variant. It would have been really helpful if SOs would have relayed our positions on their squad comms about APCs location which we constantly kept updating on command and JTAC comms. This way more marines could grab safe ride to FOB or to front. APCs make it more easier to hold less points for marines. Feels like the best strategy on maps like Trijent, CORSAT (bigger maps in general except Ice Colony)

    Command Response: Command wasnt sure how to make best use of APC. It was until late in the round that they realized how we were saving marines from horde of lurkers and runners hunting near medical on way to Bar. They were mostly clueless or not thoughtful of APC.

    Marine Response: Initially marines just wanted to ride for fun. But later they realized its a safe option for transport. We actually saved a lot of wounded marines as medics at front were overwhelmed with wounded and we would evac like 6-7 of them in a run which helped both wounded marines to come back in fight sooner and relieved pressure from frontline medics. Except few Unga PFCs who thought it better to take on runners/lurkers and died near medical many marines, Specs, SGs preferred APC transport to front.

    Xeno Response: Lurkers and Runners would slash us without any fear while we ran transport. We started ignoring them as we were helpless against them.

    Maps for APC to shine: CORSAT, Trijent, Sorokyne Strata
    Maps for Tank to shine: LV, Prison, Big Red, Ice Colony

    Balancing Suggestions
    1. Driving: Increase Initial APC Speed. Its very slow to start. Its practically slower than PFC going to front. It should be faster in transport.
    2. Add ability to hear external sounds for VCs and add a megaphone to APC driver and gunner seats to act more of a support vehicle.
    3. Primary Weapon: Low fire rate decent damage weapon good against especially structures with the aim to punch a way through rather than fighting on the front.
    4. Secondary Weapon: Rotating IFF MG with low damage and maybe decent rate of fire to protect against runners and lurkers.
    5. Flare Module: Give it to Driver to use and increase the magazing capacity to make it any useful.
    6. Defcon 2 Upgrade: No idea yet.

    Other Suggestions
    1. Give APC at roundstart (Keeping it weak) with ability to unlock geared up LTB tank at defcon 2. Keep 2 VCs only and give some sort of ability of command(or VCs) to power any 1 vehicle out of the 2.

    Tips for Command/VCs for APC
    1. APC is a support vehicle. If you have half the competent crew, Get defenses made at the front and FOB majorly with APC running most of the transport. Marines would be able to make better fortifications with concentrated resources and APC would be running transport. Get SOs to relay position of APCs to squads for better coordination. Make Requests on where it is needed to move for grabbing wounded. Appoint 1 medic to be in APC (or a doctor).
    2. Command APC is the most useless of all. Medical APC while some may find better due to scanner and doctor, I find it inferior due to lesser troop capacity. Better to grab a medic for APC and let doctor run surgery at FOB. (Its better to leave complicated scans or surgery to shipside as it will make shipside doctor role irrelevant)
    3. On Bigger Maps, APCs could be used to mobilize quick reinforcements or carry quick flanks with 8 marines. In case of larger group, send Spec, SG, Medics in APC while PFCs run behind it.
    4. Shift Click Examine doesnt show % damage to modules BUT Right Click->Examine does .
    Last edited by Desmet; 02-18-2020 at 02:29 PM. Reason: formatting changes
    Few Medals:
    Spoiler Spoiler:

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Posts
    108
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Being able to select tiles to get coordinates and then to fire a vehicle mounted mortar at them would be a nice defcon 2 unlock. Additionally, the inspiration for this vehicle does have a mortar mounted on the roar/back.

    Nice thoughts Desmet!

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •