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Thread: More stalemates than usual

  1. #11
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    Know what might help a bit? Limit on number of PFC slots, maybe 100-150 so marines eventually run out and aliens could out attrition after a 3hr match.

  2. #12
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    We have 4 reworks in the pipeline; hive structures, xenos general rework, weapons rework and the engineering / mining rework. While also having a MT rework somewhere else in the pipeline. Some of these will at least change the meta I believe.

    While some of the maps need a rework to beat the CBT built into them I've also noticed that both the hive and marines are very likely to still do the same shit, even after the update, because both sides will wail on each other over a single point of the map. Then there's the skill floors to note seeing that xenos often bleed very quickly when they don't have a core set of skilled xenos. That and shitty hive comps are a killer for the hive because the fabled 12 man lurker gangs with no hivelords and a single boiler meme.

    Blaming xenos for doing what they often are forced to commit to as an effective tactic when marines are going to constantly pound themselves into the same choke points over and over sounds daft. Marines are most effective when they act fast while xenos need to keep the horde of marines back for them to reduce marine numbers and strengthen themselves. Flanks are, while long winded at times, a good way of breaking hives and yes flanks work, people just do them after they've thrown themselves into boiler gas for 20 minutes straight leaving them with depleted forces.

    We can't even blame staff for not breaking stalemates and it would be unfair to blame staff over this, every time they do something people complain. We have constant reports for every action they do and while I agree that they have an over zealous stance over "metarushes", I don't see how shitting on staff is going to help along with how demoralized some might actually be at this point. After all, not many actually have the power to change the way the round plays out and they can't just keep jumping in for every stalemate and "metarush" which we have enough debates over.

    Anyway, we used to have ridiculously long rounds due to the marines making a ridiculous sum of defences for xenos to ram themselves against, this is just the reverse. Sit back and enjoy it and if you die or you need to go, just go. This game takes up as much time as you allow it, I can spend all day as CIA building hive defences for marines to run into and die over and over. I've built defences that turned LV's beaches into Normandy for at least and hour of combat which was aided by having good xenos to push the marines back or just capture them. We don't need the caves if we can just build what we need.

    A good hive is powered by how good its supports are and a good hivelord is solid gold to a hive, without (a) decent xeno(s) to build and prep the ground even CBT tactics will fail just because marines will often flank with no serious hindrance or push through with brute force or Jtac. Same for how marines are powered by how good their Jtac's are, how good their leaders are and how good the specs are and how good the most robust marines are at slapping xenos hard.


    In short can we not shit of the staff for something that's not their fault, or shit on the xenos because it's effective etc. Can we not raise marines to victim status when we are often to blame when we fuck ourselves over and if we let a 90 vs 10 situation end in a marine loss due to sweaty xenos then I generally think we deserved that loss and hats off to xenos for the comeback. Getting admins to do shit won't fix it faster, nor will it be guaranteed to actually make it faster. While the maps need work I don't see them needing a change when we have updates and reworks in the pipe that will most likely change the meta completely.
    Last edited by Mann handle; 02-23-2020 at 09:25 PM.

  3. #13
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    Imagine thinking ice lz1 is xeno sided

  4. #14
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    bruh just give us a couple of pickaxes at defcon 3 that can break dense rock so we can make flanks into caves

  5. #15
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    Now that metarushing was fixed, the first hour of combat is pretty fun for the both sides, since they are at their peak power. But after that, both sides are usually broken enough to be unable to steamroll. Marines lose some of their best players, SLs, SPCs, SGs, and often even command and then they lack the initiative to organize good attacks, even though they still have the raw numbers. The hive goes from its peak of high 50-s to 20-something and loses their strong roundstart T3s and T2, and then the game usually becomes too positional, for the hive to be able to capture more effectively and marines have the raw power advantage and it's prohibitively hard to push into them.

    Admin nukes are part of the problem to be honest, because marines operate on the knowledge of "no matter how much we suck in combat, if we can hold the FOB for 2 more hours, admemes would give us our free nuke". So I think that Defcon 1 should be locked not to the intel, but to the combination of time passed since the operation start and the ratio between the remaining xenos and combat marines. 2 hours passed, 20 xenos on bioscan and you're sitting at FOB with 70? Hell no. 20 to 40? Sure.

    Then I think that the hive should have a stalemate breaker mechanic of their own that punishes marine cowardice. Like maybe after one or two hours give the queen ability to get 5 burrowed larva if she sits on ovi for 30(20, 40 whatever) minutes. Then if the ratio of combat marines to the hive strength goes too low, give marines some special tectonic OB that disables this ability.

    But all of this is for the long run. What can be done currently? Putting a limit on PFCs would help. Then there should be a clear and fair policy with regards to free nukes. Like after two hours an admin tosses a coin. For heads he gives marines their nuke. For tails the high command sends marines the fuck you message saying "We analyzed the prospect of nuking this outpost. The installation is too valuable and should be recovered at all costs, the operation should be concluded within an hour." and then marines are unable to get the nuke whatsoever. After that hour, high command orders the planetside evac and the round just ends as a xeno minor.
    Roman 'Fire' Kacew

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by sg2002 View Post
    snip
    hive used to have a stalemate breaker, it was called ancient.

  7. #17
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    Someone suggested a xeno DEFCON, like in Starship Troopers, the brain eats human brains to reproduce or something(haven't watched the film). The queen could consume bursted human brains and get something like DEFCON? I don't know, maybe instant upgrade to T2 and T3. The queen would decap the marine and eat its head, therefore leaving a decaped human near the hive, so if marines get to the hive they would still have corpses to return for their DEFCON.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mann handle View Post
    We have 4 reworks in the pipeline; hive structures, xenos general rework, weapons rework and the engineering / mining rework. While also having a MT rework somewhere else in the pipeline. Some of these will at least change the meta I believe.
    snip====
    I couldn't understand half the things, since I'm pretty new to CM, but god, this was a quality post!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandalore66 View Post
    I couldn't understand half the things, since I'm pretty new to CM, but god, this was a quality post!
    Hive structures are objects that benos can create via sacrifacing a beno (usually drone and player who sacrifaced has instant chance to be reborn as new free larvae). They usually revolve around using chestbursted corpses, like turret that automatically shoots huggers at marines, but also gives those huggers to benos.

    Weapons rework will most likely be something from this thread //showthrea...4750#post44750 (part about weapons is deleted from original post for some reason, but you can read about it in my post as a quote). In short, it might mean that weapons get minimal effective range, like Pulse Rifle zuccking ainis at first three tiles from your marine and then doing the same further than six tiles away.

    Engineering/Mining rework means that there will be new resource (phoron crystal, or whatever boring shit that is not Tiberium) that both sides need to acquire. Marines use it to fuel "energy generators" which then supply power in 4x4 (if I remember correctly). Additional marine structures will require that power, sentries, flaming sentries, flags with orders, bell that alarms if beno comes trough and things like that.

    Beno general rework will most likely be new abilities and new mutators for nearly every caste, maybe slight stat changes. Maybe how their armor behave will be changed, no idea.

    It's all speculation based on test rounds, forum posts and furscord announcements, but this should give you general idea.

  10. #20
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    I'm not really sure from a game design perspective where the devs are going in terms of attack/defense.

    In theory Marines are meant to kill the xenos, meaning push the caves? But they get a nuke if they don't and stall the game out long enough. It used to be marines were punished for not pushing caves by powerful ancient xenos, but now the xeno power curve is flattened and that doesn't really matter.

    From a game design perspective, what is the reward for pushing into the caves? Its cramped close quarters with boiler gas and zero barricades, one good queen scream and 10-15 marines can die. With the xeno power curve flattened ancient/elder xeno difference doesnt really matter, and you will be fighting as least elder xenos regardless. The only reason the CO has to push caves is the fear admins might message them and tell they have to push the caves. There is virtually zero strategic advantage of going in those caves, versus hiding behind 3 layers of cades and occasionally killing a xeno who gets hit by a nade/claymore/rocket/buckshot/cas.

    I'm not even talking here about balance, regardless what needs to be done to keep the game balanced, its a bit unclear from a game design perspective who is actually supposed to be attacking/defending. I've watched games where the queen spending the round saying "wait for them in caves, ambush them in caves", and the CO says "do not go in caves, they will get impatient and come die at the FOB". Basically the game at the moment encourages stalemates, because xenos really want marines to rush into the cramped caves with zero barricades and get slaughtered/captured en masse and the marines would rather stay safe in the fob.
    Last edited by Saytkl77; 02-23-2020 at 10:11 PM.

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