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Thread: xeno rework testing discussion

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    snip
    If marines don't work together either (despite better tools do to so) then what do we expect? Giving benos better tools to cooperate will magically force them to cooperate?

    Benos also don't really need to capture very hard. You can totally win the game with roundstart pool as long as you will kill enough marines without them killing enough of you. Its the same with benos. Any beno can kill any marine with enough slashes. It helps if there is boiler, or hivelord, but bunch of Ravs and Preatorians can kill marines just as good at the moment.

    Who said benos should work together more than marines? They should work together, and anybody saying they should work "more" meant more than usuall, not more than marines have to. Game doesn't pay homage to those movies. The closest setting it has is Aliens where roles are reversed. Small amount of marines with big ammount of cannon fodder aliens.
    And why we are blaming memers existance on gameplay? Memers will exist always, no matter why, this is why each and every one of them will try to melee Queen.

    I don't see contradiction. At certain point of individual strenght, they don't need to cooperate, but they will see clear murderboing adventage of doing so. pre-MOBA lurker was competent enough to kill single marine, two working together could blast 2-3 and with that "monkey see, monkey do" they banded together. But if something is strong individually and then is starts to band together, it becomes very powerfull.
    Currently benos are required to work together to fight against marines who are FORCED to work together. This is balance. Now you say that benos simply don't cooperate and there is nothing we can do about it unless we give more strenght to individual beno and this will promote cooperation. Now with crude graph:
    |||||||||| - Strenght of overall weak individual benos when they work together.
    |||||||||| - Strenght of overall weak, but more numerous marines when they work together.
    ||||| - Supposed Strenght of overall weak individuak benos, because they don't cooperate.
    Now buff benos individually:
    |||||||||| - Overall strenght of a single beno.
    |||||||||||||||||||| - Strenght of overall strong benos when they work together.
    Quite unbalanced if I have to say so myself.

    From one extreme to another. From lack of cooperation and weak benos to plenty of cooperation and strong benos. This solves NOTHING. One problem dissapears, another one appears.

    Literally,

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    snip


    If marines don't work together either (despite better tools do to so) then what do we expect? Giving benos better tools to cooperate will magically force them to cooperate?

    Benos also don't really need to capture very hard. You can totally win the game with roundstart pool as long as you will kill enough marines without them killing enough of you. Its the same with benos. Any beno can kill any marine with enough slashes. It helps if there is boiler, or hivelord, but bunch of Ravs and Preatorians can kill marines just as good at the moment.

    Who said benos should work together more than marines? They should work together, and anybody saying they should work "more" meant more than usuall, not more than marines have to. Game doesn't pay homage to those movies. The closest setting it has is Aliens where roles are reversed. Small amount of marines with big ammount of cannon fodder aliens.
    And why we are blaming memers existance on gameplay? Memers will exist always, no matter why, this is why each and every one of them will try to melee Queen.

    I don't see contradiction. At certain point of individual strenght, they don't need to cooperate, but they will see clear murderboing adventage of doing so. pre-MOBA lurker was competent enough to kill single marine, two working together could blast 2-3 and with that "monkey see, monkey do" they banded together. But if something is strong individually and then is starts to band together, it becomes very powerfull.
    Currently benos are required to work together to fight against marines who are FORCED to work together. This is balance. Now you say that benos simply don't cooperate and there is nothing we can do about it unless we give more strenght to individual beno and this will promote cooperation. Now with crude graph:
    |||||||||| - Strenght of overall weak individual benos when they work together.
    |||||||||| - Strenght of overall weak, but more numerous marines when they work together.
    ||||| - Supposed Strenght of overall weak individuak benos, because they don't cooperate.
    Now buff benos individually:
    |||||||||| - Overall strenght of a single beno.
    |||||||||||||||||||| - Strenght of overall strong benos when they work together.
    Quite unbalanced if I have to say so myself.

    From one extreme to another. From lack of cooperation and weak benos to plenty of cooperation and strong benos. This solves NOTHING. One problem dissapears, another one appears.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    Nobody wants to play a support class that creates opportunities others never exploit or act upon. Players will only end up playing individually strong aliens when cooperation is so difficult to effect. You seem to have unconsciously realised this without also considering the implications of it. I hope you now do
    Marines also don't want that.

  3. #13
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    I enjoy them. Went queen for a hive and watched as I saw xenos actively dunk marines. Thing is, the new xenos need to use their brains to get them to work. When we got to the FOB with no boiler our offence stopped completely. It actually got to a point when we botched an assault after we got our boiler we had to run back to the caves for a little bit and gather a couple of things. Because of the retreat and the marines using the momentum to storm out we regrouped and found where the marines were coming from, went round them completely and dunked them from behind no survivors style. The hive works really well in the hands of smart players and it actually works well as a team, rather than a bag of loose bolts you have to work as components for each others strengths and weaknesses. Shame there's some issues with how people don't actually want to play and learn how these new xenos work.

    Heck my best moment I saw was a hedgehog walking up to a cade line and killing three people because they panicked so much and blasted themselves to death. Others being warriors being tough and prea's being CQC combatants.

    In short, if you have a couple of people who learn exactly what something is capable of, they can flatten marines rather well. I had a moment when we lost quite a few members but then they were also the members who were the weakest links in the hive or just very unlucky.
    Last edited by Mann handle; 03-03-2020 at 11:54 AM.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mann handle View Post
    I enjoy them. Went queen for a hive and watched as I saw xenos actively dunk marines. Thing is, the new xenos need to use their brains to get them to work. When we got to the FOB with no boiler our offence stopped completely. It actually got to a point when we botched an assault after we got our boiler we had to run back to the caves for a little bit and gather a couple of things. Because of the retreat and the marines using the momentum to storm out we regrouped and found where the marines were coming from, went round them completely and dunked them from behind no survivors style. The hive works really well in the hands of smart players and it actually works well as a team, rather than a bag of loose bolts you have to work as components for each others strengths and weaknesses. Shame there's some issues with how people don't actually want to play and learn how these new xenos work.

    Heck my best moment I saw was a hedgehog walking up to a cade line and killing three people because they panicked so much and blasted themselves to death. Others being warriors being tough and prea's being CQC combatants.

    In short, if you have a couple of people who learn exactly what something is capable of, they can flatten marines rather well. I had a moment when we lost quite a few members but then they were also the members who were the weakest links in the hive or just very unlucky.
    Your best moment was when marines didnt know how the new mechanics worked and lost because of it. This doesnt mean xenos are good it means most people dont understand all the changes and havent adapted yet. Xenos are also being flooded with shit tons of players because new stuff. It happens every time there is a major update and skews the tests to the point you cant even get an accurate assessment of how they actually work. Wait till xenos are back to lower pop numbers and marines understand exactly how they work and it will look completely different.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    Your best moment was when marines didnt know how the new mechanics worked and lost because of it. This doesnt mean xenos are good it means most people dont understand all the changes and havent adapted yet. Xenos are also being flooded with shit tons of players because new stuff. It happens every time there is a major update and skews the tests to the point you cant even get an accurate assessment of how they actually work. Wait till xenos are back to lower pop numbers and marines understand exactly how they work and it will look completely different.
    You can toss that argument around and I agree with it in part but it's like that in every update. Seriously every update you will have a surge of people try the new stuff, that's normal. Xenos are not that weak like you are trying to argue, maybe people should adapt and learn the new shit. You know, like people do all the time when something new came along. They are clearly not that weak and when people adapt from the idea that xenos are different they will try different tricks. I actually think marines die much faster now, crushers are tanky buggers that can slam a marine into Dchat, Ravs have levels of utility, boilers are a little meh but then I didn't have a decent boiler to observe. Again, based on my observation against marines doing what they do vs new xenos, the newer xenos are actually rather lethal but need a brain to function properly.

    The skill floor has changed and I generally like these changes. The xenos are powerful but still brittle enough to make one cautious yet they are not glaringly overtuned in ways that make them ridiculously OP compared to when defenders and warriors first came out and were retardedly OP or the mutators update where hives were unfun to actually attempt to fight.

  6. #16
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    I'm not sure what your point is other than nobody cooperates well, which I agree with CABAL.

    Individually strong xeno become a match for a group of marines. If you are worried they will be too strong on the off chance they work well together then remember marines can work well together too. Making xenos individually strong and capable on their own of causing some damage to one or more marines is better than forcing them to try toward some never going to happen symbiosis.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mann handle View Post
    You can toss that argument around and I agree with it in part but it's like that in every update. Seriously every update you will have a surge of people try the new stuff, that's normal. Xenos are not that weak like you are trying to argue, maybe people should adapt and learn the new shit. You know, like people do all the time when something new came along. They are clearly not that weak and when people adapt from the idea that xenos are different they will try different tricks. I actually think marines die much faster now, crushers are tanky buggers that can slam a marine into Dchat, Ravs have levels of utility, boilers are a little meh but then I didn't have a decent boiler to observe. Again, based on my observation against marines doing what they do vs new xenos, the newer xenos are actually rather lethal but need a brain to function properly.

    The skill floor has changed and I generally like these changes. The xenos are powerful but still brittle enough to make one cautious yet they are not glaringly overtuned in ways that make them ridiculously OP compared to when defenders and warriors first came out and were retardedly OP or the mutators update where hives were unfun to actually attempt to fight.
    The moba aliens this time was at 5am- 8am EST so pop might have been lower and the endless waves of marines tampered. Still want to see if on high pop they can stop the ugna wave and get caps.

    Though it good a robust core can give the aliens a chance it seems.

  8. #18
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    Just tried it. Trapper boiler's resin traps only last about 8 seconds not 45 so there's no chance of placing more than one. It seemed like some marines got stuck on them for about a quarter of a second, but others were able to run through several of them without slowing down.

  9. #19
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    Not listed but defender's fortify damage reduction is nerfed to like ... half, you get half healthed in like 4-5 normal shots, meanwhile the current one you can tank a full mag of AP and have only 1/8 of your health gone.

    Not to mention defenders in fortify can't attack or do anything, so it's literally a noob trap unless they revert it
    Is an Ambidexterous marine and xeno main.

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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mizolo View Post
    Not listed but defender's fortify damage reduction is nerfed to like ... half, you get half healthed in like 4-5 normal shots, meanwhile the current one you can tank a full mag of AP and have only 1/8 of your health gone.

    Not to mention defenders in fortify can't attack or do anything, so it's literally a noob trap unless they revert it
    Not true. You can slash cades in this state. If noob gets trapped in trying to attack too much as caste literally called "Defender", then such noob would get trapped into a trap made out of big box, a stick with long piece of rope attached and a plate with a sandwich underneath.

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