I personally feel that attachments should act more like side-grades rather than straight upgrades like how different weapons work in TF2. Objectively, the best version of a weapon should be its base form and attachments only serve to specialize it in some niche. Right now items such as angled grips, laser sights, red dot sights, mag-harnesses, etc. feel like they just make a weapon better, not different in terms of gameplay.
Luca Jagemann, the cynical colonial with the prescription glasses.
Ancient Synth Williams, on another rescue mission in Brazil.
Having to get and fit them all is a pain. Allowing a preset and collecting it from a locker would be a massive improvement and give players a lot of time - some might even use that to RP. Might.
There's a reason I vend out the entirety of squad req whenever I am SL. Attachies are way too important, especially ones like angled grips. Only way you can properly defend yourself is by wielding that shotgun as fast as possible.
I agree that attachments are ridiculous. I don't see why we would have them and not like. . . pamphlets, modes, or preferences.
Take dual-wielding pistols, or example. That's going to be about two recoil compensators, two laser sights, and the rail is negotiable between a light and some sights.
In order for this to not be a dumb decision, you need about six attachments.
For pistols.
Let's look at what are some other popular choices:
- Muzzle, optics, and grip on an HPR to make it work less like a machinegun.
- QFA, grip, and stock on a M41A to make it work like an assault rifle.
- Bayonet, harness, and a stock on a M37 to make it work more like a melee weapon.
- Scopes on the Specialist's grenade launcher and rocket launcher so that you can aim beyond the range that their projectiles will injure you too.
These are common-sense, or a sign of an alternative that doesn't exist. I think it would make more sense to just like. . . select traits at the beginning of the match or something, like Rimworld. "You're trigger-happy, so fire faster but less accurately", "You're a brawler, so you deal more melee damage and have higher damage, but are worse with guns." Walking already increases your dodge chance and accuracy, why not "rifleman" and "machinegunner" stances that can be selected as well?
QFAs, grips, and and gyroscopes don't really meaningfully affect gameplay in any way that couldn't be logically replaced with some other system that reduces attachment bloat.
Meanwhile, bipods are supposed to affect how weapons operate, underbarrel flamers and grenade launchers are supposed to be the appeal of M41As, and cowboys aren't supposed to need some fancy-schmancy city-slicker doodads to dual-wield their pistols. If it meaningfully impacts gameplay, then, by all means, add or keep it.
Attachments themselves are fine, weapons aren't. Due to game mechanics, you ABSOLUTELY need attachments on some of the guns to even make them viable. You're not gonna be able to do anything vs runner/lurker if you don't have AGrip or gyro on your shotgun because they can pounce, slash you for 5 times (easily breaking a bone in the meanwhile or even worse) and get out of range before you can even draw and fire your weapon; and they can repeat the process all over again. You're not gonna be able to deal any real damage with M41 unless you have a QF due to its pitiful damage and fire rate. You're not gonna be able to hit anything with M39 unless you have a suppressor and AGrip because its bullet spread is ridiculous.
Buffing the weapons so they're acceptable without attachments won't even mean anything with attachments, because aside from BC and B8 (both are bad example of why attachments are bad for the game btw; since BC majorly reduces your fire rate which forces you to be more careful of hitting your shots because you're gonna be able to kill a marine in 1-2 bursts with BC on; and B8 reduces your fire rate and wielded movement speed which relegates you to sniping duty only because you will never be able to chase down any xeno and securing the kill with it) you don't really have anything that dramatically changes a weapon. Yes, even QF won't make M41 broken after any buff because M41 relies on mass fire and until you can somehow get that with bald ass marines who don't even know anything about SS13 let alone CM, it'll stay that way
Also Arty, "stock, mag har, bayo" is only put on M37 by bad players that think they can somehow do more damage with pure melee than PBing or shooting normally. That or someone who likes the aesthetics. It's not a popular loadout by any mean. I know that you're mainly a shipside player but you could've at least asked before you posted
Thank you for going into more detail about what I meant, yes. Most weapon builds are not viable unless you use the best attachment for the gun. For shotguns, that is either the angled grip or mag harness (not quite as important to macro users), for the SMG it's the regular SMG stock since the collapsible one is trash. The M41A is a joke without QFA, it is the definition of peashooter. The m39 at least shoots enough peas to be moderately threatening.Originally Posted by DefinitelyAlone0309
When the most 'crazy' you can get with the M41A is using a QFA, a skeleton stock, and a bipod to make it behave how it should without needing any of that shit, you have an issue with attachment balance. Adding the stats of attachments back into the guns and then making attachments actually change how the guns work instead of just making the guns usable, or just giving skills via pamphlets for more creative gameplay, would be much better than how it currently works. It basically makes half of your squad worse just because they don't have attachments for their gun, and even req will run out of the essential ones quickly with how many PFCs need them.
I'm more of a gadget person rather than attachments. Ammo magazines, grenades, utilities and storages are must to me more.
But on my point of view. It's up on how people experienced and understanding how a combination of attachments would yield and how they'd have to perform for their guns to work out correctly with that set up. Weather it's the obvious loadout or strange ones. People would tend to go on what they see much easier and fit or mostly in public opinions to mimic it out. I mostly just experiment with all kind of combination in hope that they won't be so terrible and if they do then I must use them in another methods. When I vend or ask for attachments I'd very often tab out into Wiki and try to make sense out of what I'm going to get then try them out in the shooting range. If it's not on favor my play style or expectation then I'd trade it, change it or toss it away for others. And if it's still crap and there's no other options then I'd have to try to use the gun in different way such as putting it as secondary weapon for the situation it fits better or adjust and change all my other gears that'd oppose it back to square one.
For example. If it spread a lot but rate of fire is good then I'd play as fast footing with light armor and then switch gun to chase xeno with it or play as tanky frontline where close range would be enough to hit with. But yeah... not really my style there.
What I'm saying that in my point of view each attachments can make good purpose even on slightest benefit to compensate the drawback from powerful attachment or ridiculously twisted upside down for best and worst like dual gyro shotguns to PB purpose.
I do have my times with the attachments where others wouldn't touch due to their uselessness. And I do not regret any. But that doesn't mean I won't strip attachments off the guns I looted if it's a real mess...
BUT! Going with no attachment at all is not a bad idea either!
Be aware that attachements are used for "balance". If you dig in changelog deep enough, you can find out such gems as: "Nerfed shotgun wield delay, because A-grip exist".
First things first: I wonder if a lot of people here have even tried a barrel charger. Sure, some attachments, like the barrel charger, B8, 2x scope, 4x scope, mag harness, gyro, burstfire and quickfire all have massive impact. They also all have downsides, except the mag harness, but the mag harness means you can't use your rail slot for something else and it only matters if you're gonna drop your gun on the front and get back up somewhere where you can't get it back. I don't see any massively unbalanced attachments because their impact is either small, niche or they fuck up something else to compensate.
I don't know why the OP mentions HvH, but, it is obligatory that I say that the game isn't balanced around HvH and I don't think it should be a priority to try currently.
My opinion on attachments is that they provide player choice and you can full well play without them, to be perfectly honest. Few attachments really matter that much and a naked pulse rifle will do just fine. It is just if you want to do something very specific, you have the option to do that thing without having to change weapons. It's nice. I don't see the big deal with it beyond maybe people having to spend five minutes on it every round, but, what else would you do untill briefing? Marines getting attachments isn't the only pre-briefing thing that takes time, hell, some POs still don't manage to be ready by 12:20.
The only thing that is really silly to me is that the bayonet decreases weapon accuracy.
Attachments add fun to the game, especially when you are a PFC. No longer are you “generic marine #23,” you’re the guy who has a completely customized, pimped-out [insert weapon of choice here]. The problems come from both redundancy in attachments, where some attachments essentially do the same thing, as well as the fact that everyone who knows the “best build” will wind up with the same damn weapon, because meta. But on top of that, there is another layer of weapon alteration that happens after attachments, ammo type, which complicates the already convoluted dance of stat alterations that happens with attachments.
Here’s a few ideas:
- Mag harnesses should be standard. Only time a marine should be dropping their weapon is on purpose, or because they already have a backup weapon in their armor slot. If it’s standard, it shouldn’t take a rail slot.
- Make most attachments purely cosmetic. Then make the guns good without requiring attachments. Some attachments would still do things: silencer makes the shots quiet, underbarrel weapons still do their thing, scopes move you to one tile from the edge of your vision, why isn’t there a plain old IFF attachment that isn’t a scope? But nothing that tinkers with the stats.
- The Pamphlet idea is a really good one. Or allowing you to choose your character’s pamphlet/ability loadout in character editing. It would work well with the cosmetic attachments idea.
Here are some pamphlet ideas (most, if not all, have been mentioned by others, I think) that would change up mechanics or provide QoL:
- Dual-Wield: When you fire a weapon in your main hand, if there’s a weapon in your offhand, it is fired as well. Obviously needs an offset, like accuracy penalty based on type of weapon; pistols have less penalty, larger weapon have bigger penalties. If the idea were implemented, belts that hold two pistols would need to be a thing, so that you could have two guns, one for each of me.
- Longsight: When using a scope, your view zooms out in addition to moving your sprite to one tile away from the edge you are not facing.
- QuickDraw: Gives you two buttons: one to toggle where you are drawing from, belt, back, armor. The other drops what you are holding in your primary hand, if anything, and draws a weapon from the selected location, no ready delay, but accuracy is reduced for a few ticks, if only one weapon is drawn, it goes straight to wielded.
- Spray & Pray: Empty your clip/magazine at an alarming rate, probably by having a minimal fire delay, but not one so low that a macro could instantly empty the gun. Every shot taken faster than the “normal” weapon fire rate applies an accuracy debuff to a stack, which goes away after one tick of not firing.
- Swap: Move a weapon wielded or single handed from your primary hand to your suit slot. If there is a weapon already in the suit slot, it is moved to your primary hand in the same grip state as the other weapon.
Others could replicate effects from current attachments, such as lower recoil, increase damage. Or, don’t have things like that if the weapons are just buffed a bit, to where they don’t need attachments to perform their role (shottie for close, m41 for mid, L42 for long, m37 for paper targets, etc) and make the ammo types more straightforward and specialized. When I say straight forward, I mean someone should know if the round they’re using is ”high raw damage but no AP (hollowpoints, buckshot),” “medium damage with AP (AP rounds, slugs),“ or “low damage with armor-shredding (flechettes),” “incendiary (Do You Believe in Magic).””
Then your specialty one-off funky ammo types can be available from Req, like a shotgun shell that does a small cone (1x1 then 3x1) of fire that doesn’t even last for a single tick but does some nice burn damage and ignites anything hit. Or other experimental ammo types, there’s a lot of differences out there (yes, these are hollowpoints, but I wanted hydroshock hollowpoints). I dunno, I just feel like Req shouldn’t be tasked with giving out stuff you should already have readily available in your weapon closet.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote