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Thread: If we're not fighting Xenomorphs, we shouldn't be fighting Xenomorphs.

  1. #1
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    Post If we're not fighting Xenomorphs, we shouldn't be fighting Xenomorphs.

    Xenomorph XX121, commonly referred to as simply the Xenomorph and known colloquially as the Alien, is a highly aggressive endoparasitoid extraterrestrial species. The Xenomorphs are vicious predatory creatures with no higher goals than the propagation of their species and the destruction of any life that could pose a threat to them. Like wasps or bees, Xenomorphs are eusocial, with a fertile Queen breeding a host of subordinate castes. The creatures are known for their potent acidic blood and their pharyngeal jaws, although their biological life cycle, in which their offspring are implanted inside living hosts before erupting violently from their chests, is in many ways their signature aspect.
    - Xenopedia entry for Xenomorphs, Species XX121.




    Xenomorphs are really cool.


    Pretty sure nobody is debating this. They've been around for a while, so they're recognizable. Their design is iconic, and they've got lots of cool tricks and abilities up their sleeves. A lot of players on this server have no doubt grown up with the movies, games, and comics, or even just absorbing them through pop-culture or the server's own community.




    The playerbase doesn't want to fight Xenomorphs.


    It is a basic premise of game design that gameplay comes first. Doom (2016) had lore, but it was kept in the background and did not interfere with the shotgunning, chainsawing, and dismemberment of demons.

    As a community, there are objections to the most essential aspects of Xenomorphs, such as their abduction and capturing of prey, means of instantly killing prey (head bites, tails, beheadings), acidic blood, relative frailty, and the Queen's ability to horrifically and liberally eviscerate prey.

    These traits are recognized and repeated from the best of the franchise, to some of the worst. Regardless of incarnation, variation, mutation, and interpretation, all examples of Xenomorphs maintain a number of these traits.

    It is my belief that Xenomorphs are not welcome in the current environment and direction of the game.

    Acid blood, random critical hits, the spreading of eggs, and low health of the Xenomorphs have been reduced or removed. The Queen's screech, and gibbing abilities are likewise hot topics for balance and the community. "Xeno Main" is a common insult directed at people wishing to enhance these - and similar - abilities of the Xenomorphs which define them as a species and iconic monster. These aspects are as essential to their identity as Werewolves' relation to the full moon and silver, dragons and their fire breath, vampires and their bloodthirst.




    We should be fighting something else.


    We aren't fighting Xenomorphs. They eat ammunition like candy, engaging one in close-range combat isn't a worst-case scenario, and their acid-blood's potency has been reduced so that the act of running up and shotgunning one at point-blank range isn't prohibitively dangerous.

    These are not Xenomorphs.

    If we are not fighting Xenomorphs, then I do not see why we would continue to use their likenesses and moniker.

    I do not believe we should be forced to adhere to the lore if that's not the goal of the community to reflect an accurate depiction of the setting, but we should at least have some explanation as to why our opponents differ so much from their heritage.

    At the low-end of things, this means a simple changing of text. We're not fighting XX121, we're fighting the far-more inconsistent XX122/ZZ121, or a Weston-Yamada variation upon the evolutionary formula. Perhaps Predators were displeased with the same fights, and devised a variant that provided far more challenge and variation in combat. Regardless of what it amounts to, we should have a reason as to why the Xenomorphs we are fighting differ so much from standard.

    At the intensive-end of things, perhaps this is an opportunity? There have been complaints of repetition, or the shifting of a few points in damage or speed that can (in some people's opinions) harshly impact the flow and balance of the game, it's loop, or people's careful strategies. In this case, it may be wiser to open our array of antagonists.

    Xenoids have no baggage. They are an original beastie that does not hold allegiance to any series of movies, technical manuals, or history. Who are we to say that a Defender caste of the Xenoid hive could easily shrug-off four shells of buckshot from point-blank range? There is nothing demanding that they have acid blood, and many of them seem to lack a bladed tail or inner mouth that we have observed piercing armor as if it were paper. They could have a whole host of abilities and traits that would be unimaginable on a Xenomorph. Perhaps they care not for fire, or do not bow to the Queen's every whim. There may be some capable of wielding guns, or even - God forbid - enjoying a conga line.




    A Modest Proposal

    It can be difficult to balance a two-sided battle. Every piece of marine tech, every innovation of The Company, and every ounce of Chitin must be balanced against a singular other side, as other factions are functionally non-existent. Why remove acid blood? It interferes with perhaps the community's most beloved weapon. I'm sure I am not the only one who believes some of the Xeno's abilities and strains are uncharacteristic and is pushing the boundaries of what can be believed of the species.

    Even if they begin with few differences, Xenoids could answer many of the game, and community's needs. We have seen the effectiveness in varied threats in the "vanilla" game of Space Station 13: Changelings, Vampires, Blobs, Cults, Rebellious Uprisings, Spiders, Abductors, Nuke Ops, and even some rather silly-looking Xenomorphs.

    I believe that giving our haggard hive-society a peer would do a great deal to aid in the worries of copyright (Metroid, Duke Nukem, Broforce, Fallout 2, and our more contemporary servers have been able to avoid almost blatant theft of Xenomorphs in design, function, or aesthetic by immersing them in a pantheon of other threats and characters), allowing them to fill every role possible of an interesting threat, and balancing the same strategies that are used every round ad-infinidum. We do not need to have the variety of standard servers right away, but I believe it is a worthwhile pursuit, and consideration.
    Last edited by Call me Arty; 03-07-2020 at 05:27 AM.

  2. #2
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    I just want to say a few things. For one, most of this argument is an argument for lore purity, that we can't have Xenomorphs if "our Xenomorphs are different." Honestly, I can't much care for it. I am not much an Aliens fan, and I am not sure how much the average CM player actually cares about the setting beyond it being a semi-coherent scene dressing. But I am sure how I feel - as long as the gameplay doesn't get worse because of it, I don't care if they're Xenomorphs or Xenoids or whatever. If the Devs would consider it 'freeing' to remove the ties to the term Xenomorph, then that would be enough to sway me into the camp. Although, it must be said, removing the terminology would make it harder for CM to advertise.

    I must note that it is inevitable that some people will reffer to "Xenoids" as "Nids" rather than "Xenos."

    All of that aside, I do however have an opinion on your closing statement.
    "We do not need to have the variety of standard servers right away, but I believe it is a worthwhile pursuit, and consideration."
    I disagree. I actually like how CM tries to do one thing solidly than twenty things half-baked and that is what sets it apart from most other variations of SS13 (among other things). Variation is nice, and certainly welcome in the context that has long been established, but the quality of the experience is more important to me - if I sought such variation, I'd not be playing CM.

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    Several members of the Discord have gotten the general concept of what I'm pitching.

    Demons: Xenos, but with fire instead of acid. Previously observed with the Ravenger.

    Necromorphs: Xenos, but with corpse conversion instead of chest-bursting. Previously observed with Zombies gamemodes.

    Lovecraftian Horrors: Xenos, but with like, fuggin' tentacles or some shit. Previously observed with Carp'sie-related events.

    All of these groups could work simply enough with a new coat of paint, and a small shift in some structural aspect of Xenomorphs. Should a team or individual wish to expand upon them further from there, we could have a diverse selection of stories and forces to play with. There need not be a complete-and-utter shift in gameplay and the conventions of the game.
    Last edited by Call me Arty; 03-07-2020 at 01:43 AM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Call me Arty View Post
    Several members of the Discord have gotten the general concept of what I'm pitching.

    Demons: Xenos, but with fire instead of acid. Previously observed with the Ravenger.

    Necromorphs: Xenos, but with corpse conversion instead of chest-bursting. Previously observed with Zombies gamemodes.

    Lovecraftian Horrors: Xenos, but with like, fuggin' tentacles or some shit. Previously observed with Carp'sie-related events.

    All of these groups could work simply enough with a new coat of paint, and a small shift in some structural aspect of Xenomorphs. Should a team or individual wish to expand upon them further from there, we could have a diverse selection of stories and forces to play with. There need not be a complete-and-utter shift in gameplay and the conventions of the game.
    I would not mind at all having random variations of Xenos every round for Marines to face, having a different enemy to fight helps prevent staleness of the gameplay loop. Plus, we're called Colonial Marines there's no reason we can't have different enemy types or horrors from different parts of the Universe to fight off.

    Don't know if the development team would want to create so many different enemy types though, sounds like a lot of work for the size of the development team we currently have on CM.

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    Why and how would one go about this? The dev to do list is rather large already with a few big updates in the pipe. Sprites, code, time, energy, spaghetti code to battle so one minor change doesn't break a bunch of shit down the line, the community actually getting on board with this and so on. Sure people might be a little bored with xenos but xenoids just sounds like something you'd toss into /tg/station for some form of meme. Heck your ideas of such is just people taking spins on other things in general, much like CM does with aliens, Demons can cover biblical to 40K. Necromorphs could just be the undead / ghouls, a common thing really. Lovecraftian horrors says it on the tin. None of this is really original and it's just general derivatives or twists on an idea, much like CM. Maybe an idea might make it into a caste but that's about it really.

    Got to point out really, what would be the point for time to be spent on this sort of thing here in CM? If you were suggesting that you code and make a brand new server sure, go ahead, new servers are always nice. But I don't think we'd see anything coming from this at all with how busy / burnt out people are at this point.

  6. #6
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    Zerg-like
    Demon-like
    Necro-like
    Horror generic-like

    Zerg like is where heading with infections and such but infestation and all isnt core, or something.

  7. #7
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    belongs in acid goop
    we have neither the time nor any good reasons to do this

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fourkhan View Post
    belongs in acid goop
    we have neither the time nor any good reasons to do this
    I mean, you can feel free to say that and disagree. I wouldn't want anybody to drop one of their personal projects or sacrifice free time to commit to this idea. Labeling at shitposting, however, would be a dick move.

  9. #9
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    Capturing nerfs over and over dont help make the aliens be more like well... the aliens. It more going towards maybe zerg or something. Probably should just go full blast and make them zerg like

  10. #10
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    Did you really bring this dumb topic to the forums. It should've died on the discord.

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