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Thread: SolidFury - Rule 17:

  1. #1
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    SolidFury - Rule 17:

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Snow7

    Date of Incident
    March 17, 2020

    Your Character Name?
    Katashi Juro

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    SolidFury

    Accused Character Name
    William "Mengele" Crimson

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    6:02 PM

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Rule 17:

    Description of the incident:
    Me and three other marines were mutineers in a mutiny against the CO when we were captured by the riot squad and brought to CIC. We were restrained and put in chairs when the CO William Crimson ordered us shot and the MPs executed all three of us. One of the other marines was named Luca Read I think not sure about the third. This goes against the part of rule 17 that says "During the mutiny, attacking any uninvolved, medical, or surrendered personnel is strictly forbidden, as is perma-killing anyone involved. If you have surrendered during a mutiny, you must remain as such.". We were surrendered during an active mutiny and the CO had all three of us permakilled.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    The logs I didn't get any screenshots sorry.

    How you would punish the accused:
    Dewhitelist

  2. #2
    Whitelisted Captain/Retired WL Maintainer Snooper44's Avatar
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    I was the Riot Control Chief that executed you on the CO's orders. You continued to resist from your cuffs and the chair you were buckled to while mutineers were literally inches away from shooting into CIC and killing us. Quite literally shots were actually flying into CIC and hitting us. You made it clear you were not surrendering as you constantly shouted vulgar things at us and to kill us while resisting from your cuffs along with the other marines we executed

    There was another marine in CIC who did not resist his cuffs and sat quietly in the chair he was buckled to. He was not executed because we knew he was not a threat as he surrendered and was released after the mutiny had ended.

    An admin/mod even made an announcement that if you were resisting from your cuffs, that is not surrendering, especially because CIC was a warzone. So on the CO's approval we acted accordingly.


    Commodore Greg Lauffer



    Whitelist Maintainer

    January 1st 2021 - June 28th 2021

  3. #3
    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    You were not surrendered.

    Surrendering implies that you willfully disarmed yourself and handed yourself over to the Military Police. Waiving the whiteflag.

    You were a captured prisoner, detained non lethally who was dealt with by Riot MPs and taken to the CIC for a code-red execution procedure.

    A lawful execution for someone who has commit sedition

    Considering I was dealing with a 40+ mutiny (which was against the Military Police, which isnt normally permitted, resulting in nearly all my MPs dead) and a completely DESTROYED brig. (Mods will testify to this and this screenshot kindly posted on discord shows the INITIAL fight with only the first mutineers

    Now, considering that yourself and other individuals were trying to escape from cuffs and mutineers were quite literally outside the door (They had periodic control, even having control of the areas in my office) and that my Military Police were unable to complete assure my safety (nor keep the prisoners secure, as logs will actually show me recuffing prisoners who resisted cuffs)

    It was decided that you face a legal and lawful execution, as is permitted within marine law.



    TLDR: You didnt surrender, instead you were captured in combat with riot MPs, brought to the CIC and given a lawful verdict of execution. If the rules intended for detained mutineers to be under this rule, it would say detained mutineers, not surrendered.


    Honestly, trying to "dewhitelist" because you joined a mutiny and was executed is pretty whew my guy.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

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    I would think that surrendered mutineers and those that had been captured would fall under the same umbrella. At least I think the gist of the rule is that people who are not able to actually take part in the mutiny can't be harmed. As far as I could tell the marines weren't even close to CIC when I was executed and I resisted like twice and then stopped. Also I didn't see the other two guys that got executed resist at all but they still got shot. I didn't see that admin anouncement about resisting hopefully it's in the logs.

  5. #5
    Ceyella
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    The entire round and mutiny was a mess of bad information and people reacting. Everyone was breaking rules unintentionally. I got dubs on me for shooting MPs I thought were just RPG stunned. I think given the situation and context crimson didn’t do anything too wild or wrong, he just reacted to a abnormal out of control situation, to the best of his ability to try and survive and win. The situation was crazy wild, and I think the council should keep that in mind when passing judgement. It was in fact a massive MASSIVE mutiny of basically endless ungas attacking.

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    Admin solidfury7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brucejuice69 View Post
    I would think that surrendered mutineers and those that had been captured would fall under the same umbrella. At least I think the gist of the rule is that people who are not able to actually take part in the mutiny can't be harmed. As far as I could tell the marines weren't even close to CIC when I was executed and I resisted like twice and then stopped. Also I didn't see the other two guys that got executed resist at all but they still got shot. I didn't see that admin anouncement about resisting hopefully it's in the logs.
    So, you are attempting to extend the rule to now encompass further definitions, and you wish to have me removed because you have unwritten definitions. You were obviously not surrendered, you resisted twice and you were legally processed regardless of the resisting (I did spare one of the mutineer leaders because he wasn't causing a fuss, he was singing)

    I think I'm going to just going to take this report with a pinch of salt, but ultimately, I will say, Surrendering is far different than being captured.
    <::The Provost is always watching.::>

    Spoiler Spoiler:

  7. #7
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    I'm saying that it goes against the spirit of that rule to execute mutineer prisoners. I think it's the same as going out of your way to permakill marines who are being treated. I was under the impression that you weren't allowed to execute people as a result of mutinies but I might be wrong.

  8. #8
    CM-SS13 Vice Host
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    As a note
    I was in round as a special character to help MPs learn the new system.
    I permitted a jailbreak through inaction, which unfortunately escalated and I was unable to control due to IC presence and only one other member of staff being online at the time I elected to Rule 0 the situation and allow things to play out. I summoned more members of staff to help and just prior to this called a riot ERT to try and stabilise. Even with this done it continued to be an effective civil war.
    The majority of this situation can be placed on my shoulders so I apologise for that.
    I have no further comments to add.
    Charles & Arthur Edwinson
    Synth Percival | Artyom
    Yautja Kjhute Luar-ke

    Record:
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    Discord: forest2001#2001

  9. #9
    Senior Member scsnv's Avatar
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    I agree that captured mutineers normally should not be executed, but if you're resisting your captivity or otherwise pose a danger, it can't really be said that you 'surrendered', or that you should be considered 'surrendered' for the purpose of the rule.

    This is of course completely aside from the peripheral circumstances related to Forest's Rule 0/admin intervention; while it might've removed some of Solid's culpability had he broken a rule, on the merits of the issue alone I think Solid's actions fit within the confines of the rules.

    Resolved; no action taken.
    Trial Moderator: 4/18/19 - 5/2/19 / Moderator: 5/3/19 - 10/1/19 / Senior Moderator: 10/2/19 - 12/26/19 / Trial Admin: 12/27/19 - 1/11/20 / Mod Manager: 1/12/20 - 4/18/20

    Cerwick/Balakura/etc
    Discord: noah#7322

    Former staff member and long-time CO Council member, now I just wave my boomer cane at people when I want something to complain about.

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