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Thread: Staff Report - hunk1

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    Staff Report - hunk1

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    nuklearcellphoneg
    Date of Incident
    April 5, 2020
    Your Character Name?
    hunter pun thomasten
    Their BYOND Key
    hunk1
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    1:00 PM CST
    Which Staff Protocols (https://cm-ss13.com/forums/showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Moderator
    'The moderators are the police of the server. Their main focus is to ensure that rules are not being broken and that the integrity and fun of the server is maintained. They take ahelps before anyone else.


    ==Player enjoyment and enforcement of the rules are their top two priorities; however, the rules are NOT unbend-able, and if bending a rule allows the server to have fun, then a moderator can use their own judgement to determine the proper course of action.==

    The most important thing is making sure players are enjoying themselves as much as they can be!'

    I believe that he unnecessarily enforced a rule when it could have been left well enough alone while having no real impact on the server. Instead, he wanted to set a warning to my ckey, and escalated it to a ban. He insisted that I'd killed myself to intentionally lower the defcon, and I said I have no no understanding of that, and he said that if I read the rules or the Wiki, then I would certainly understand, and I asked him to show me, and he said I was rule lawyering and banned me.

    There is a suicide rule and the reasoning given is, you should cryo so as to reopen the job slot. I was, as I often am, a PFC. I was not occupying a limited job slot.

    If you go onto the wiki and search suicide, not too many things come up, but one is the CO's page which states:

    "Note: Do not commit suicide without a valid RP reason; otherwise you may end with a command job ban. If you are unsure about your RP reason for suicide, you can ahelp any of the staff online to make sure you won't be job banned for it."

    If there are situations where a CO may suicide, then I am unsure as to why I am forced to suffer without relent as a lowly rank and file PFC.

    -
    Description of the incident
    I was badly injured IC, I was escorted to LZ by the female IO with a Japanese last name. I started to get on the DS, but noticed a doc. I walked down to them. They were busy. I ended up doing a couple of maintenance things around the FOB LZ for the moment. After awhile it became apparent I had an untreated broken skull and other broken things, which caused me to go blind and start passing out so I ended up trying to just stand in one place. When it came for my turn to get surgery, the doc, Sybil, was out of anesthesia, so she had to get back on the DS.

    When the DS came, I tried but was unsuccessful in getting on- Sybil even noticed me towards the end, tried to drag me on, but the DS doors shut and pushed me out. I waited a very very long time, I had played several rounds before this one, and I really didn't want to wait another 15-20 minutes to get repaired, or possibly never see the DS- so I assumed that I had suffered quite enough( in the logs I saved, it cuts off before all this started, but I have a count of 324 messages with pain in them), and suicided. He PMed me, said this was wrong due to it lowering defcon and implied had I read the rules or wiki, I would understand that. Honestly, I've taken a second look, and neither of those have shown me anything related to that.

    -
    Evidence
    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...05_1_55_pm.htm Logs I saved of my perspective.

    https://imgur.com/a/BEbmNA9 Excerpt of our interactions more or less

    https://imgur.com/a/mj1A9Ol When I saved the logs in the knick of time, I noticed there's no time stamp, so this is just to show kind of... how long I was just sitting there blind up until I got fed up and ended it.

    -
    How you would punish the accused
    I just wanted to use a public forum to vocalize how rules ought to be enforced by the spirit of the law, not the letter of the law.

    And surely the defcon via suicide must have gotten memed or something at some point because I have no clue where the you came up with that, and I can't find any official mention of it.

  2. #2
    Ancient Member Hunk1's Avatar
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    Life is surrounded by decisions. You gambled in one of your decisions and you lost.

    The round where you took part had a similar incident where the pilot of Transport were doing fly by trying to be CAS instead of actually doing transport. If you had ahelped that your treatment was being delayed by the pilot, we would had take action against the pilot, not you. We ruled the issue regarding the Pilot, IC issue.

    By any means, You won't find much RP reasonings which we allow suicides because realistic there are very few of them. Being blind and didn't want to wait 20-30 minutes for them isn't one of those RP reasons.

    The fact you decided to take that matter in your own hands with a bad outcome ruled this as OOC issue as is part of our rules, being a PFC dosen't exclude you from this rule as you STILL need a Roleplay reasoning for suiciding. The Excuse of "Limitless PFC" dosen't "glue" on me.

    I cannot express my disappointment because we have a lot of tools that allow you to take different outcomes that prevent rule breaking, a few of those are the Ahelp system, LOOC or even if you don't want to continue with the round, Ghost out. It would be a far more acceptable outcome than suiciding.

    Instead of taking the warning, (you were already out of the round, you could join as xenomorph), you decided to Rule laywer me, without sufficient reasoning to back you, trying to find breaches on the written rules page, which is , by all means, extremelly frowned upon, led to you having your warning escalated to a punishment of a 3 hour ban because of your argumentative behavior.

    I am not here to diminish you in any means, but i want to give you a suggestion, If you really want to commit suicide, you may want to Ahelp first and get a clearance from staff or you WILL get yourself in trouble.

    I am available for questioning by the Moderator Manager.
    and i returned, and left. and returned again 19/06/2022, this is my life now.


    Former Moderator Trainer. If you have any questions regarding Moderation Duties, feel free to DM me: Hunk1#9842

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    " If you had ahelped that your treatment was being delayed by the pilot, we would had take action against the pilot, not you. "

    I didn't want anything done to the pilot, I could care less about the pilot. I am contextualizing my experience so that you and others understand my

    "being a PFC dosen't exclude you from this rule as you STILL need a Roleplay reasoning for suiciding."

    Yes, and I had one. I had been in excruciating pain, I was blind aka have no sense of my surroundings, according to some radio chatter Xenos are closing in, I can't expect reasonable DS pick up- I can wait, and but this likely risks one other Marine's life because I wasn't even capable of walking the ten steps to get onto the DS when it landed the first time, and it sounded like the DS might not land at all.

    "even if you don't want to continue with the round, Ghost out. It would be a far more acceptable outcome than suiciding."

    Rule 11. Suicide, Rage-Quitting, and Logging off - If you are a marine and need to leave the game, go to Cryo on the ship and put yourself in a cryotube. This will release your job slot and allow another player to join with your job. If you are unable to get to cryo, send an Adminhelp to staff. If you are the Queen, Adminhelp to let staff know. If you leave without cryo’ing yourself or informing staff, you risk a job ban, especially if your job is an important one.

    This rules states in the beginning: Suicide = Rage Quitting = Logging off. If you did not message me, I would have logged off. So no, those are all equally unacceptable according to the rule.

    "(you were already out of the round, you could join as xenomorph),"

    Xenos are awfully boring. I have no desire to play them. I've played them to see how things work from their perspective, but immediately disabled the auto xeno function. And to reiterate- I'd already played through the previous, I dunno, six rounds today? I have gone down, gotten surgery, been killed, dragged to LZ, revived, gone back out, gotten killed, etc. I had no desire to play, and let me reiterate: According to that rule, ghosting/logging out are implied to be equally as bad. So, I took the option that seemed the most relevant RP wise.

    "you decided to Rule laywer me, without sufficient reasoning to back you, trying to find breaches on the written rules page,"

    Let me copy and paste our conversation, friend.


    ---




    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: Hey, care to explain why did you suicide?
    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: Hello, click on my name to respond


    PM to Hunk1: I'd been blind for about 15 to 20 minutes of passing out and suffering and take up no particularly special marine slot.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: Refrain of doing that, you were on alamo already, 1 minute and you would be on almayer being threated.

    ( This was 100% incorrect and only implies to me either you are unwilling to make an honest attempt to understand the context of my IC situation, which means it wouldn't matter what my RP reasoning was, from square one you had the facts wrong )

    PM to Hunk1: I certainly was not on the Alamo nor was it there

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: I see your body on alamo. Read the Rules Page. Your account will recieve a warning.

    PM to Hunk1: Naw pal. I killed myself on the LZ and was drug onto the Alamo, like many many many corpses.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: Still, there is no reason for suiciding. Suiciding for being blind is a shit reason to kill yourself and lower the Defcon.

    PM to Hunk1: u wot
    PM to Hunk1: It sounds like you're inserting some kind of reasoning into my actions that does not exist.
    PM to Hunk1: Please do refrain from doing that, it's very unbecoming of staff.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: You said you were blind. When a marine dies, their defcon lowers. When you suicide you intentionally lower the defcon.

    PM to Hunk1: I have no knowledge of that, nor would I be able to without having access to the code, please do not punish players for things of which they cannot be aware.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: IF you read the rules and the WIKI you would be aware of that. This issue is resolved and you consider yourself warned.


    PM to Hunk1: Rule 11. Suicide, Rage-Quitting, and Logging off - If you are a marine and need to leave the game, go to Cryo on the ship and put yourself in a cryotube. This will release your job slot and allow another player to join with your job. If you are unable to get to cryo, send an Adminhelp to staff. If you are the Queen, Adminhelp to let staff know. If you leave without cryo鈥檌ng yourself or informing staff, you risk a job ban, especially if your job is an important one. None of the reasoning here involves that, and the wiki is very VERY innacurate in many MANY areas.

    PM to Hunk1: The rule only mentions job slots, and there are infinite PFC slots.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: If you're going to rule laywer me i will give you a 3 hour ban. This is not a discussion.

    PM to Hunk1: It certainly is because you are putting words in my mouth. IF you read the rules and the WIKI you would be aware of that. Please, show me where it says this.


    You have been banned by hunk1.
    Reason: le 11. Suicide, Rage-Quitting, and Logging off, Suicided on LZ, claimed to be blinded. Player was warned to not break this rule. Duo argumentative behavior this has been escalated to a 3 hour ban. Read our Rules and refrain of breaking it again..
    This is a temporary ban, it will be removed in 180 minutes.
    To try to resolve this matter head to https://cm-ss13.com/viewforum.php?f=76

    You are the one rule lawyering, friend. Please show me where the wiki or rules shows that suiciding is intentionally lowering defcon, because I looked and looked and could not find it, and further, I considered the rules before I suicided, and I have read the wiki and rules, and they say this:

    In the rules, the punishment is: If you leave without cryo’ing yourself or informing staff, you risk a job ban, especially if your job is an important one.

    On the CO page on the Wiki, it states: Note: Do not commit suicide without a valid RP reason; otherwise you may end with a command job ban. If you are unsure about your RP reason for suicide, you can ahelp any of the staff online to make sure you won't be job banned for it

  4. #4
    Admin Taketheshot56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hunter pun thompson View Post
    [I]
    You are the one rule lawyering, friend. Please show me where the wiki or rules shows that suiciding is intentionally lowering defcon, because I looked and looked and could not find it, and further, I considered the rules before I suicided, and I have read the wiki and rules, and they say this:

    In the rules, the punishment is: If you leave without cryo’ing yourself or informing staff, you risk a job ban, especially if your job is an important one.

    On the CO page on the Wiki, it states: Note: Do not commit suicide without a valid RP reason; otherwise you may end with a command job ban. If you are unsure about your RP reason for suicide, you can ahelp any of the staff online to make sure you won't be job banned for it

    Im going to inform you of this once, the forums is not a place where you will get away with being a dick, especially in a report. Take this into consideration and be mindful of any future responses.
    Former member of the Commanders Council, PM me if you want help with making a whitelist or have a question.

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    Admin Novacti's Avatar
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    I will be depositing the logs of this incident within the next 12 hours
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    Admin Novacti's Avatar
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    Thomaston waiting for groundside surgery at the LZ:
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    The Suicide and getting dragged onto the Alamo:
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    The Ahelp:
    Spoiler Spoiler:



    PM's and what happened during them:
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    The logs do not indicate any chatter over comms regarding the xenoes are coming anywhere near the LZ at the time of suicide. Attack logs indicate that the queen hasn't even come across the river. This was within the minute of suicide.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novacti View Post
    The logs do not indicate any chatter over comms regarding the xenoes are coming anywhere near the LZ at the time of suicide. Attack logs indicate that the queen hasn't even come across the river. This was within the minute of suicide.
    CPL Darwin 'DJ' Jefferson [Bravo (SG)] says, "Engis, I have organ damage. I can't help you secure Nexus for now"
    Harrison Weinstein talks into the marine delta engineer radio headset
    You really need some painkillers!
    PFC Brian Robertson [Bravo (Mar)] says, "Acid everywhere"
    You really need some painkillers!
    ...You hear something about...I'm
    LCPL Rebecca Sterling [Bravo (Eng)] says, "Runner kitchen."
    PFC Roxi 'Powerwolf' Hanigen [Bravo (Mar)] says, "The whole wall is being melted."
    LCPL John Pillsbury [Bravo (Eng)] yells, "XENOS SOUTH OF HYDRO!!"
    LCPL Rebecca Sterling [Bravo (Eng)] says, "North of nexus is being melted."
    PVT Kauri 'K.T.' Togiahemetu [Bravo (Mar)] says, "Some melting south as well."
    LCPL Sara White [Bravo (Med)] says, "THE QUEENS GOT ME"

    Logs indicate Nexus is being breached in some way. A Bravo medic is gotten by the queen(I'm not exactly sure where they were gotten, but bravo = fobbit so). I'm blind, low on blood and passing in and out. Nexus being in trouble = LZ being in trouble as far as I'm concerned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Taketheshot56 View Post
    Im going to inform you of this once, the forums is not a place where you will get away with being a dick, especially in a report. Take this into consideration and be mindful of any future responses.
    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: Still, there is no reason for suiciding. Suiciding for being blind is a shit reason to kill yourself and lower the Defcon.
    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: You said you were blind. When a marine dies, their defcon lowers. When you suicide you intentionally lower the defcon.

    PM to Hunk1: I have no knowledge of that, nor would I be able to without having access to the code, please do not punish players for things of which they cannot be aware.

    SeniorModerator PM from Hunk1: IF you read the rules and the WIKI you would be aware of that. This issue is resolved and you consider yourself warned.

    ---

    Again, apparently what was wrong with what I did has something to do with me intentionally lowering defcon, and I still have been unable to find anything written about that, besides that, it would be because I wasted a job slot, which I did not do.

  9. #9
    Admin Novacti's Avatar
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    Location of the queen within the minute of suicide:

    [12:43:00]ATTACK: (Elder Empress) shot (Sara White) with a neurotoxic spit in the South Central Caves (77,135,1).

    Nobody has any attack logs at/near nexus or even at the time of suicide. Nobody has died anywhere near or across the river for that matter as well. The closest anyone's died was south containers.

    The Xenos presence slightly increases by 1 or 2 at nexus 4 minutes after suicide.

    [12:52:31]ATTACK: (Elder Empress) shot (Vadim Dmitriev) with a neurotoxic spit in the Eastern Caves (160,169,1).
    [12:52:32]ATTACK: (Frank Marloe) shot (Mature Runner (L-704)) with a rifle bullet in the Eastern Caves (148,138,1).
    Last edited by Novacti; 04-07-2020 at 03:31 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Novacti View Post

    Nobody has any attack logs at/near nexus or even at the time of suicide. Nobody has died anywhere near or across the river for that matter as well. The closest anyone's died was south containers.

    The Xenos presence slightly increases by 1 or 2 at nexus 4 minutes after suicide.
    You have access to logs with perfect information after the fact. In-game, during the round, I only have access to what I can see(I'm blind and passing out), and what I hear over comms.


    CPL Darwin 'DJ' Jefferson [Bravo (SG)] says, "Engis, I have organ damage. I can't help you secure Nexus for now"
    Nexus implied to not be secure.

    LCPL Rebecca Sterling [Bravo (Eng)] says, "Runner kitchen."
    There is a runner in the kitchen.

    LCPL Rebecca Sterling [Bravo (Eng)] says, "North of nexus is being melted."
    PVT Kauri 'K.T.' Togiahemetu [Bravo (Mar)] says, "Some melting south as well."
    North/South Nexus being melted.

    LCPL Sara White [Bravo (Med)] says, "THE QUEENS GOT ME"
    Bravo is FOB. Medic yells the queen has her. Where is the medic? I have no idea, but one might assume, as a bravo, they are in or around the FOB.

    As a blind PFC, who can't walk without causing more brain/eye damage to myself because my head still isn't splinted, I can't confirm any of that, I can't walk towards Nexus and see in my one tile cone of vision whether those cades are melting, and I certainly can't use any type of binocs to see anything.

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