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Thread: On Jailbreaks

  1. #1
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    Post On Jailbreaks

    So, as of late I have seen an uptick in the number of Jailbreak requests for various reasons. By this point, I have seen everything from "we're mad at the MPs because they arrested someone who just got revived and didn't have armor on when they left the medbay" to "they arrested a marine and we don't care that the guy shot someone else, they can't do that our marine."

    That aside, our current stance on such is one that require that Jailbreak be not only warranted but completely non-violent, else that would be a mutiny. What I want to try to understand (since I have never really felt the need to C4 the brig) is why everyone wants to immediately jump to that as being THE solution that they feel is necessary?

    Is this stemming from a distrust / unfamiliarity with the systems in place for getting this sorta stuff appealed? Or is it due to marines feeling the need to take immediate action, regardless the circumstances, because they 'have the tools' and psudo-mob mentality. If it's the first part we can at least see if something needs to be fixed / changed or something. If it's the second, well, we can address that too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Medi View Post
    why everyone wants to immediately jump to that as being THE solution that they feel is necessary?

    Is this stemming from a distrust / unfamiliarity with the systems in place for getting this sorta stuff appealed? Or is it due to marines feeling the need to take immediate action, regardless the circumstances, because they 'have the tools' and psudo-mob mentality. If it's the first part we can at least see if something needs to be fixed / changed or something. If it's the second, well, we can address that too.
    Despite the fact that some of us have read all of marine law, I’m sure that many have not. And even amongst those of us who have read it, we are not scholars of it. Lawyers exist on other ss13s. Not so much on the Almayer (the CL is... not seen as a lawyer you’d want defending you). So, when something like a perceived improper arrest happens, people have two go-to answers:

    1: Read space law and try to lawyer your pal out of jail, which may or may not work depending on the brick-headedness of the current MPs.

    2: Blow it up.

    So... this is the root of your problem. Simple which guarantees action vs complicated which may result in MPs who just say “get out of here or you’re under arrest too.” I’m not saying that *all* MPs, or even *most* MPs are guilty of that, but the perception that people get from reading deadchat, or even listening to chat in game is that “MPs bad, Delta Unga nekked speesman gud.”

    Why isn’t there a legal advocate for the marines? Just asking. Something like that (as boring as it might be on some rounds) would at least give marines someone they can voice their complaint to, who will actually try to do something about it regardless of the suspect’s guilt, etc.

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    It's because the vast, vast majority of MP players are total shitters. This isn't something new, this has just always been the case. You can't mutiny against the MPs themselves and murder all of them to make the round go better, so you have to break your guy out of jail instead.

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    Way I see it, people just get bored fighting one single type of enemy (xenos) and will jump on any opportunity to soft-antag other human players, which 99% of the time means MPs and Command.
    I'd say that in those cases people could blow a lot of that steam off if some sort of random human antags sometimes entered the occasional round as some sort of "standard event" like rogue PMCs or UPP preemptive strike and stuff like that. The only time you'd ever face human antags in a round without staff intervention is via ERT which only happens at the end of the round and only effects the ship. If on some rounds, a large spawn (or even waves) of human antags on the planet (along with a landing ship, a la the dropships and LZs) to introduce a level of human-human conflict that doesn't screw with the marine's shipside crew.

    I like the JAG officer idea too. I wanted to suggest it a while ago but I could never think of any real justification since it boils down to an arrpee role unless it's whitelisted and taken seriously.

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    MPs have just bad reputation and OOC shield. The common mentality is that you can't fight system with the same system, because "hand washes hand".
    Not many people belive in MP and Staff good intentions and fast reactions. Its 10 times faster to C4 brig, than to do anything else.

    What other can marines do, if they don't agree with arrest that is technically valid in light of LRP Marine Law? Send a fax? To do that, they need CL, or CMP, or someon from Command on their side at first.
    Then they have to write said Fax, but have to do sort of elite form to have a glimpse of chance to get response. And then response. Most of the faxes will be ignored and everyone knows that. You can't deny it. So Fax way is time consuming and extremely unreliable.
    So what next? Begging CO for appeal. That requires CO who is both trusted (recognised by community) and likely to stand behind marines. The latter nearly never happens as CO usually is the one who either ordered arrest, or knew that marine will be arrested and did nothing. Faster, but still unreliable.

    Both of those ways even if successfull, won't give marines, who (in their own eyes) were somehow fucked over by MP's/Command, any satisfaction.
    C4'ing brig to bust someone out of the cell is fast, reliable and gives feeling of retribution against those who have wronged them. Also its the only way that lets them do it, without counting on second, or third party to not even lift a finger.

    While both examples you gave are something I see as just dumb unga ssethtide player requests, valid arguments shouldn't be dismissed. Rounds on CM don't usually last many hours, nobody has time to fax.
    "we're mad at the MPs because they arrested someone who just got revived and didn't have armor on when they left the medbay" - Not a reason to bust someone out of prison, but a dick move from MP who surerly won't return for that armor, to give it back when marine will be left out of the jail (and during hijack they are always are, even with Perma sentence). How marine who felt that MP wronged his friend by not taking his armor, by not telling him he is about to be arrest (if it wasn't red alert for exame) as how could arrested marine be cooperative if he lies unconciouss?

    In my case, I surerly lost all trust in ML after LRP cat rights were added. Trust in faxes I never even had in the first place as everything I sent was ignored, and 99% of faxes I saw comming from other people that actually were blessed enough to receive response, got nothing done. Remaining 1% got something done, but it was way too late.

    I think there are only two ways to solve this problem:
    a) MP and admemes have to gain community trust
    b) Go further into the stinking hole, more LRP events, more faxes ignored, more LRP in ML and such.

    Option "a" is of course impossible, so just go deeper and harsher on marines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidofmk771 View Post
    Way I see it, people just get bored fighting one single type of enemy (xenos) and will jump on any opportunity to soft-antag other human players.
    Wouldn't it then be easier if they just skipped a round and played a round on Goon/tg/vg/whatever instead?

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    its because this is a team beased game and all the MPs are shitters

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenofood View Post
    Wouldn't it then be easier if they just skipped a round and played a round on Goon/tg/vg/whatever instead?
    Except you aren’t guaranteed a fight on those servers. You come to CM to be part of an active military body, or a beano. You go to any of those servers, you might get to kill humans if you’re traitor. Might. But more often than not, you’ll end up dying because someone delaminated the engine, or mixed chems wrong in medical, or... nothing happens and it’s a quiet shift. You don’t come to CM for the quiet shift, unless you’re doing one of several ship side roles. But those roles rarely clash with the MPs.

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    So do you guys think the answer is in which of the following?

    - The system for reporting and finding remedy needs fixed?
    - There needs to be a more accessible channel for people to report things like this to HC/Provost?
    - We need a new/different element to judicial administration?
    - Players themselves (such as Marines) need restrictions to prevent such?

    Im just curious to see what the community thinks is the answer to this particular issue since it also helps you guys see why the mods/admins can't exactly just jump into the middle of every single arrest.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medi View Post
    So do you guys think the answer is in which of the following?

    - The system for reporting and finding remedy needs fixed?
    - There needs to be a more accessible channel for people to report things like this to HC/Provost?
    - We need a new/different element to judicial administration?
    - Players themselves (such as Marines) need restrictions to prevent such?

    Im just curious to see what the community thinks is the answer to this particular issue since it also helps you guys see why the mods/admins can't exactly just jump into the middle of every single arrest.
    MPs need to not have an absolute shit ton of OOC protection from admins and mods.

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