On Jailbreaks

[Fewher]

I think it's important everyone understands the position of MPs is only valid on Medium or High Roleplay servers.
CM does not have casual antags (civs with traitor objectives), this severely limits their use to Roleplayers breaking IC rules.

However in the last couple of years CM has significantly shifted from Medium RP to Low/No RP standards.

This leaves a previous job that had something to do and was widely played by roleplayers completely void of content since no one is roleplaying or breaking IC rules.
Making almost every engagement with rulebreakers an OOC issue rather than an IC issue.

[Bob]

I'll do it again.

[Sakuyoi]

Remove MP OOC protection.

Make engineer be able to blow down brig wall if they ahelp then have moderators do subtle messaging to MPs that something bad is gonna happen.

Make MPs be able to remove armor to chase down marines. They shouldnt be punished in removing armor or beret to effectively do their job.

Make squad marine rallies and riots not OOC issue because it rarely happens and usually people would roleplay to have their squad member pardoned.

Mutinies should not be always CIC. We need mutinies that can target a certain departments like brig, requisitions, and engineering.
Because currently if you mutiny its automatically the CIC and not the MP shitlers.

[solidfury7]

Remove MP OOC protection.

Make engineer be able to blow down brig wall if they ahelp then have moderators do subtle messaging to MPs that something bad is gonna happen.

Make MPs be able to remove armor to chase down marines. They shouldnt be punished in removing armor or beret to effectively do their job.

Make squad marine rallies and riots not OOC issue because it rarely happens and usually people would roleplay to have their squad member pardoned.

Mutinies should not be always CIC. We need mutinies that can target a certain departments like brig, requisitions, and engineering.
Because currently if you mutiny its automatically the CIC and not the MP shitlers.

I'm do believe that ooc restrictions should be lifted for a certain extent, although mutinies which target departments is problematic. As it opens the door to people quite literally killing people for doing their job as was a big issue in the old marine law days. Not to mention that Marines killing doctors or engineers opens a huge can of worms itself.

If we are going to go down that route, which I'm not totally against if amendments are made. We would likely need a larger amount of MP slots.

I could also get behind a more streamlined way for aspiring mutinieers to make formal complaints against departments or cic as a whole.

[Moosetasm]

I could also get behind a more streamlined way for aspiring mutinieers to make formal complaints against departments or cic as a whole.

This is, I think, why most people jump straight to mutiny and jailbreak.

When reporting someone, or an entire department, you’re supposed to go to the Captain, or highest ranking CIC officer. But they’re almost always busy. When someone tries to lodge a complaint like “Req isn’t giving out any attachments to anyone, CIC” and they don’t get a response because command is busy, or could care less, then people want to do something, anything to get their justice.

Sometimes that’s an IO breaking into req and stabbing the RO to death (saw it happen, both the RO saying that attachments were to be given out in squad req only, AND the subsequent murder of the RO). Instead of, I dunno, LOOC asking if they’re new to the role, and then trying to walk them through it.

There are certain routines to the game, things people expect to happen. It’s assumed that equipment kits and attachments will be given out. It’s assumed that medical will make that special cocktail of drugs you ask for. So when those routines get broken, people get upset. But it’s the mentality people have going into those situations, they feel that they are essentially owed those things, that leads to them reacting so strongly.

Which leads me to the next topic: Veteran player elitism. Let’s be honest here, we’ve all called someone bald over something. But what I’m talking about goes further than just that. If someone is new to a job, then people don’t cut them slack. Hell, even I’ve fallen into that trap, blaming the new guy for being new (how DARE they be new & not perfect at the job). People get genuinely angry when someone is trying to learn a job. It’s much, much worse for important roles, like spec or any of the officer roles. Maybe a better term for it would be “Teammate Skill Entitlement.” Because you will rarely see someone say something like “hey man, why did you fire a rocket at a spitter? You know you’re supposed to save those for T3s or the Queen, right?” But I will often see “you bald ass idiot, you just wasted a fucking rocket!” Then they disarm or punch the SADAR Spec and run away.

This mentality is being applied to command as well. “Command issued a plan that failed? Mutiny!” “Command issued a plan that isn’t meta win? MUTINY!”

Anyways. That kind of mentality is born of LRP. LRP is wanting to win, the end. Anything that interrupts the routine you think moves you to that win, whether it be not getting the attachment you want, or your favorite murder buddy getting arrested for doing something illegal, you react violently towards, because “how dare command’s RP get in the way of my win.” I’ve actually seen someone write that, completely devoid of irony. So, that’s what you’re dealing with.

Apologies again for the block of text. When I write... I write a lot, apparently.

[spookydonut]

Mutinies are for when people are working against the best interests of the marine team, i.e; awful command decisions.

If people want to mutiny against specific departments it's probably a sign that those departments are working against the best interests of the marine team (i.e; soft griefing MPs)

[Nyvrem]

This mentality is being applied to command as well. “Command issued a plan that failed? Mutiny!” “Command issued a plan that isn’t meta win? MUTINY!”

Anyways. That kind of mentality is born of LRP. LRP is wanting to win, the end. Anything that interrupts the routine you think moves you to that win, whether it be not getting the attachment you want, or your favorite murder buddy getting arrested for doing something illegal, you react violently towards, because “how dare command’s RP get in the way of my win.” I’ve actually seen someone write that, completely devoid of irony. So, that’s what you’re dealing with.

Apologies again for the block of text. When I write... I write a lot, apparently.

There is much I agree with, but this is rather unnuanced.

You can't fault people for at least wanting the possibility of victory and sometimes that is exactly what they are denied, by no fault of their own. Of course people find that frustrating. I get that some players feel rather entitled to mutinies and all that (especially when they get into crowd mentality) and that getting angry because people aren't playing optimally or by the meta is silly. However, if the CIC issues a plan that is so bad that the marines will lose because of it, they have at least the right to be salty. Because in cases like that, its about a hundred people being fucked over by just one or two. In such cases it doesn't matter if command has the highest and purest form of RP known to man, especially if the majority of players won't ever see it.

[Just L]

There is much I agree with, but this is rather unnuanced.

You can't fault people for at least wanting the possibility of victory and sometimes that is exactly what they are denied, by no fault of their own. Of course people find that frustrating. I get that some players feel rather entitled to mutinies and all that (especially when they get into crowd mentality) and that getting angry because people aren't playing optimally or by the meta is silly. However, if the CIC issues a plan that is so bad that the marines will lose because of it, they have at least the right to be salty. Because in cases like that, its about a hundred people being fucked over by just one or two. In such cases it doesn't matter if command has the highest and purest form of RP known to man, especially if the majority of players won't ever see it.

I still get flashbacks to the round where two moderators playing CO and CMP banned all shotguns from use, causing mass riots and refusals to deploy.

[Moosetasm]

There is much I agree with, but this is rather unnuanced.

You can't fault people for at least wanting the possibility of victory and sometimes that is exactly what they are denied, by no fault of their own. Of course people find that frustrating. I get that some players feel rather entitled to mutinies and all that (especially when they get into crowd mentality) and that getting angry because people aren't playing optimally or by the meta is silly. However, if the CIC issues a plan that is so bad that the marines will lose because of it, they have at least the right to be salty. Because in cases like that, its about a hundred people being fucked over by just one or two. In such cases it doesn't matter if command has the highest and purest form of RP known to man, especially if the majority of players won't ever see it.

Yeah, I should have specified, when I go on my stream of consciousness tangents, I often jump past my own point. I was trying to say that people are blaming command and saying that it’s their RP that’s screwing everything even when it isn’t. The point was that people are pointing to RP as a problem that’s interfering with them getting their game on. If a Captain issues suicidal, or completely nonsensical orders, then they deserve the ensuing a-helped mutiny. But we have people on the ground (well, ghosted... so like... in the ether) blaming command for FOB OBs and saying it’s because “they’re too busy role playing up there,” when what caused both of those snafus was an SL giving the wrong OB coordinates. The disturbing part is that they’re weaponizing RP like it’s a bad thing that only detracts from their K/D ratio (which I am very glad is gone). But now, with K/D gone, there’s just one thing left for those people to focus on, Marine / Xeno win ratio.

Maybe I’m alone in this, but I’d rather fight an interesting losing battle rather than win the same damn way turn after turn. For me, it’s being all about shooting the shit with teammates before the action happens, the heroics during an assault, being driven back after a failed push, taking as many wounded as possible while still trying to ham it up (“I love you sarge!”), slowly losing the FOB to relentless assaults, while bemoaning that the command didn’t invest in more sentry guns, then dragging some delimbed guy into a drop ship and tell them they’re gonna be ok, even though I’m pretty sure they’re unconscious, then pretending like we actually have R&R until the DS launches, then scrambling for equipment and running to tank bay or the pods, and having a last stand where you either win, get into a pod and escape, or die horrifically.

Don’t get me wrong, winning is good. Crushing the xenos, seeing them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the Queen is, indeed, the best thing in life. But only if there is some fun player interaction.

I think I’m just bemoaning that people are trying to make this into Marine vs Xeno deathmatch, when what makes CM (and consequently other SS13 stations) fun, is the variety of people you meet, and watching how the same exact group of people can bring life and replayability to the game, even if we do get caught in the endless dust_2 LV / BR rotation.

[Troika]

This is, I think, why most people jump straight to mutiny and jailbreak.

When reporting someone, or an entire department, you’re supposed to go to the Captain, or highest ranking CIC officer. But they’re almost always busy. When someone tries to lodge a complaint like “Req isn’t giving out any attachments to anyone, CIC” and they don’t get a response because command is busy, or could care less, then people want to do something, anything to get their justice.

Sometimes that’s an IO breaking into req and stabbing the RO to death (saw it happen, both the RO saying that attachments were to be given out in squad req only, AND the subsequent murder of the RO). Instead of, I dunno, LOOC asking if they’re new to the role, and then trying to walk them through it.

There are certain routines to the game, things people expect to happen. It’s assumed that equipment kits and attachments will be given out. It’s assumed that medical will make that special cocktail of drugs you ask for. So when those routines get broken, people get upset. But it’s the mentality people have going into those situations, they feel that they are essentially owed those things, that leads to them reacting so strongly.

Which leads me to the next topic: Veteran player elitism. Let’s be honest here, we’ve all called someone bald over something. But what I’m talking about goes further than just that. If someone is new to a job, then people don’t cut them slack. Hell, even I’ve fallen into that trap, blaming the new guy for being new (how DARE they be new & not perfect at the job). People get genuinely angry when someone is trying to learn a job. It’s much, much worse for important roles, like spec or any of the officer roles. Maybe a better term for it would be “Teammate Skill Entitlement.” Because you will rarely see someone say something like “hey man, why did you fire a rocket at a spitter? You know you’re supposed to save those for T3s or the Queen, right?” But I will often see “you bald ass idiot, you just wasted a fucking rocket!” Then they disarm or punch the SADAR Spec and run away.

This mentality is being applied to command as well. “Command issued a plan that failed? Mutiny!” “Command issued a plan that isn’t meta win? MUTINY!”

Anyways. That kind of mentality is born of LRP. LRP is wanting to win, the end. Anything that interrupts the routine you think moves you to that win, whether it be not getting the attachment you want, or your favorite murder buddy getting arrested for doing something illegal, you react violently towards, because “how dare command’s RP get in the way of my win.” I’ve actually seen someone write that, completely devoid of irony. So, that’s what you’re dealing with.

Apologies again for the block of text. When I write... I write a lot, apparently.

If you try to disarm a man holding a SADAR you don't get to complain when he gibs you with it