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Thread: On Jailbreaks

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medi View Post
    So do you guys think the answer is in which of the following?

    - The system for reporting and finding remedy needs fixed?
    - There needs to be a more accessible channel for people to report things like this to HC/Provost?
    - We need a new/different element to judicial administration?
    - Players themselves (such as Marines) need restrictions to prevent such?

    Im just curious to see what the community thinks is the answer to this particular issue since it also helps you guys see why the mods/admins can't exactly just jump into the middle of every single arrest.
    It's simple, remove the MPs, we don't need an antag role in CM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medi View Post
    - There needs to be a more accessible channel for people to report things like this to HC/Provost?
    In my opinion there needs to be (among other things) someone/something that has power over both Command and MPs, but responds as fast as C4 on a brig doors. But someone who is not taking Command/MP side every fricking time. On the contrary, even a little biased towards marines. Like some kind of "bitch" secretary who doesn't really like this battalion, but not because of PFCs and other rines. "Enemy of my enemy is my friend". This simple sentence is hardcoded into head of every unga whose fingers itch to blew up brig.
    If, for example, ARES was more self-aware and really showed that he doesn't like Command and MPs. Marines would fucking love him. They would pray to him, they would praise him, they would bring BC to the window where you can see his core, just to show appriciation for someone who fights for their cause, even if "well being" of marines wasn't his main goal.
    Hell, I would praise ARES if he would shit on MPs and Command every round for even their smallest mistake. I can imagine it would be a fairly fun role for admeme to be.

  3. #13
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    Following on the last few posts, MPs are a built-in antag. Their sole purpose is to pounce on marines and jail them. Now, I imagine they have a lot of power in the form of abilities and OOC support because they take a significant workload off the shoulders of the admins & mods by dealing with troublemakers. The problem is that power breeds abuse of said power. They did an actual psychological study on this, of volunteers, where a certain number were “prison guards,” and the others were “inmates.” There were rules that were given out, but the guards were left to themselves. It very quickly devolved into the guards abusing the inmates, and the inmates feeling both powerless to stop it and unwilling to report it due to fear of reprisal. The PFCs are the inmates in this case.

    Now, also, this is (from what I’ve read in all of the forums, what I’ve heard from other players, and what I’ve seen in person) a long-standing problem. It’s been allowed to fester. It’s been exacerbated by the fact that there is little consistency in the seemingly arbitrary enforcement of not just Marine Law on the Almayer, but on LRP vs MRP. Jones has the same rights as a marine. That means he has more right than ARES. That’s LRP built into the guidelines of this MRP server. That is a contradiction that lacks consistency within something that is supposed to be an HRP document. Without consistency, people don’t know what to expect. Or worse, they don’t know what they can get away with. And because the state of affairs has been like this for so long... I hate to break it to you, but there is no easy fix.

    The easiest solutions involve losing the MP roles. Your antagonists are gone. Then the admins and moderators will need to make a choice. And I do not envy that choice.

    1: Make CM MRP again. Admins and Mods fix any LRP snafus in the rules or in marine law, and then aggressively enforce server rules by themselves. They cannot put that burden on players. You will lose players by doing this. Period. You’ll lose any LRP players who refuse to even try MRP, as well as any players that wanted to be the deputy mod role that was MP. This also means no more LRP events, at least not without significant notification days in advance. Only then, will people know what they’re getting when they sign onto the server. It’ll take a lot of work. A lot. But you’ll wind up with a base of players who won’t violate marine law except if the situation actually warrants it because they want the server to keep its standards.

    2: Admit everything is LRP. If random LRP events are going to be the norm for some admins, and the other admins aren’t going to do anything about it, then you have no OOC or IC legs to stand on. Players will log in and not be surprised when they see marines having seizures in briefing while throwing grenades and who-knows what else. This is easy. You will lose all of your HRP and MRP players. And then you can rule over anarchy and meme of the week.

    The harder option, much harder, since you’ll all have to agree on it, is to painstakingly rewrite the game lore to be in a quasi-realistic SS13 style universe where having cats with marine rights, and General Crabbous the giant crab charging the xeno line (hilarious but extremely LRP event) are things that happen. Then... MPs have to go through the same vetting and trial process as moderators. And you all have to be on the same page. Somehow.

    Again, I have written a lot. But there is no simple fix for what is essentially a systemic issue of letting things get the way they are. It took time to happen. And it’s going to take time to fix.

    I won’t lie to you about your chances... but you have my sympathies.
    Last edited by Moosetasm; 04-17-2020 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Sigh, English is my native language. Or it’s supposed to be.

  4. #14
    Senior Member DekoToast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juliansl View Post
    It's simple, remove the MPs, we don't need an antag role in CM.
    IMO, adding direct antagonists with objectives that are fun, but wont disturb the current op (Stealing important objects or files seems like the easiest thing to do here) could help solve the MP problem. It would give the MP's something to do besides just hunt down bald marines with their guns out. The main problem with the MP role right now is that it's a role as complicated as it is boring (very), giving the MPs a reason to exist could help reduce their shittery.
    Rain 'Hail' Atkinson (Human Roles): Slayer of Xenos and babysitter of PFCs
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    Mentor - 6/5/2020

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosetasm View Post
    1: Make CM MRP again. ...

    2: Admit everything is LRP. ...
    How about this for a pitch, let's do both.

    Don't even have to go too far for an example, look at Goon. 13th of every month, it's Ass Day. On Ass Day, literally near anything goes. No rules enforced (except the usual ban on racist slurs and ERP). Players run wild. Admemes let loose and giant robot asses roam the station. A whole day of everyone, even the admins, being antags.

    So let's do that. Let's have one (or hell, why not even two or three) days of every month specifically dedicated to no-holds-barred fuckery where it's a party and everyone is invited and you can freely respawn (after 5 minutes from ghosting) as random xeno or marine.

    Then for the rest of the month, we go back to MRP. Let's just try it. Try it for a few months, see how it goes. Granted, if we have a new player who joins on one of those days, will think that this is how the server normally operates. But that's to be expected, it's nothing a stern talking to + big notice popup won't fix.

  6. #16
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    People jail break for various reasons...

    Shitcurity MPs: MPs that arrest you for anything and people hate, happens

    Arrested SL-SG-Spec-Engi-Medic: PFCs are dime a dozen but those support dudes are the shit, cant lose them. People don't want to lose critical roles but again it doesnt always happen a jailbreak for them.

    Metagrudge: Sometimes occur, basically some MPs are just hated and players will find any reason to kill them, the jailbreak is just icing on top they want to shit on their lives.

    Metacomms: Real reason it occurs, basically they are metafriends(friends irl) that will jailbreak anyone out. Typically an issue with delta but can happen with other squads.

    Soapboxing: Other major reason, basically someone is selling the case hard to save them from that 10 minute charge and they get some guys to try to bail them out.

    The major reasons are typically soapboxing and metafriends with important roles being brigged being also a good fire starter for a jailbreak/mutiny.

    Are all MPs evil? I'll be frank in all my SS13 years unless I actually tried to soft antag security never bothered me, you basically have to go out of your way and greytide and cause chaos to be jailed. MPs are just following the law/RP-server rules, sometimes Ahelp the bad ones.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pigeon View Post

    Are all MPs evil? I'll be frank in all my SS13 years unless I actually tried to soft antag security never bothered me, you basically have to go out of your way and greytide and cause chaos to be jailed. MPs are just following the law/RP-server rules, sometimes Ahelp the bad ones.
    Sole fact that Rex Texas still isn't permanently MP jobbanned is what directly states that Ahelping shitlers means nothing in the grand scale of things.

  8. #18
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    There are no long term consequences for breaking marine law, either as a MP or as a standard marine. I have played rounds as a MP where a fellow MP broke marine law and the CMP was loose with their procedures. Even Sent a fax about it. Nothing. Next day played MP again. Same MP breaking the law. More Nothing from the top. At this point, I just try to limit the damage.

    I have also seen the same set of marine names constantly come up as issues. As long as they dont break server rules they just break as many marine law rules as they can.

    I am with some of the other posters, just get rid of MPs and let the marines run wild before deployment. its what happens anyway.

  9. #19
    Senior Member DekoToast's Avatar
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    To be honest, I have never actually had a problem with the Military Police. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the easiest way to avoid arrest is to not commit any crimes.
    Rain 'Hail' Atkinson (Human Roles): Slayer of Xenos and babysitter of PFCs
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    Spoiler Spoiler:

    NV-XXX-C6 (Xeno Roles): CRUSHER GANG CRUSHER GANG
    Whitelisted Monkey Damn You Boomermin, the Monkeys will rise again
    Spoiler Spoiler:


    Mentor - 6/5/2020

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by DekoToast View Post
    To be honest, I have never actually had a problem with the Military Police. Maybe I'm just lucky, but the easiest way to avoid arrest is to not commit any crimes.
    How dare you speak such nonsense.

    /s

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