On Jailbreaks

[Nyvrem]

Aliens have low standards for their RP and mostly should be trying to use alien terms to describe marine stuff as honestly I think this encourages players to think as an alien rather as a player and can help encourage further RP but would be more a guideline rather then heavily enforced, while for actual RP just act like an alien and try not to be a dick to queen or QM as that is not what a hivemind does.

Ehhh. While the whole gamer talk aliens tend to do takes you out of the experience, I'll honestly say that the whole boomrock boomstick longspit babytalk breaks my immersion way harder. They're a hivemind, why do I have to care about the language used to convey thoughts when those thoughts wouldn't even need a language to be conveyed. It just feels contrived when they're forced to use sillier words for the sake of RP.

Having said that, a RP maintainer would fix the issue of nobody knowing what the RP standards are, because tyrany is the easiest way to resolve confusion.



Also, I'll honestly say, while I get that some MPs are garbage and try to bend their way into fucking people over, they serve an useful purpose. If staff can't respond in a timely manner under normal circumstances (something often stated in this thread, I don't have much personal experience), how can they be expected to take care of all the shit MPs take care of?

[Moosetasm]

A lore master role for the dev team and a RP maintainer for admin team would probably be a good idea as they can help standardize and work with people on what should be lore....

That or they'll do what they always done and just say read the aliens wiki for lore. Though having some RP standard hammered out for admins and players to follow wouldnt be the worst idea. It can work where players can finally guess how they should act to a degree. For example... Marines would act like those typically 80s movie marines; mixtures of tough guys, cowards, this that, but they all try to act cool and dick around, a laid back mil-RP. Aliens have low standards for their RP and mostly should be trying to use alien terms to describe marine stuff as honestly I think this encourages players to think as an alien rather as a player and can help encourage further RP but would be more a guideline rather then heavily enforced, while for actual RP just act like an alien and try not to be a dick to queen or QM as that is not what a hivemind does.

This. I may go to extremes sometimes, but this would be a way to possibly make everyone happy.

[spookydonut]

inb4 all the hate directed at MPs is directed at staff. People begin to ragequit because they get noted for throwing eggs in briefing.

Don't they already for lowrp?

[Corocan]

People begin to ragequit because they get noted for throwing eggs in briefing.

good

Something tells me that the players who are calling for the removal of MPs would be the first to decry staff for trying to uphold a standard of roleplay... Oh wait... That's exactly what happened.

[kooarbiter]

Please, stop. If you can't see LRP in cat laws and majority of events, then just stop.

I could only imagine how hard it is to maintain "MRP" when LRP laws are hardcoded into Marine Law, when nobody (yes, especially higher ups) takes CM world serious.
CM doesn't run "equivalent" of Nuke Ops. Its way closer to Miners going into lavaland to fight fauna there and sometimes fauna comes to the station. If some shithead Sec would arrest people during Nuke Ops, he would be lynched no matter how good he would obey spess law, because what he actually does is decreasing chance of his side to win. Yet another reason why people don't like MPs. No matter if Jesus Christ was CMP with Dalai Lama, Ghandi and Mother Teresa as his MPs, they would be seens as the worst scum for arresting crew during emergency for minor shit.

I don't really see players as major/only obstacle to MRP. You can look at other servers, how HRP ones exist? Oh, I wonder. Miracle? Ancient Artifacts embeded into server room where they store their data? No, the answer is that Admemes treat those servers seriously. Damned Vore Station takes world presented in their server more seriously than CM world is taken.

The only real difference between "normal" servers and CM is that "normal" servers rounds aren't so god damn repetitive and stale. This is what pushes people into doing stupid stuff. This is why some throw eggs at CO, this is why some break windows, this is why some are generally disruptive (we of course have to exclude universal shitlers who would LRP and/or grieff on the best run server there could be).
This and also stupid restictions. Imagine that CM world is one where Commander's cat has more rights than AI who is running entire fucking ship and is definatelly more self-aware both OOC and IC. The same world just happens to not have transhumanists who would like their fleshy limbs changed into kickass cybernetics, because its not what "sane" marine would want.
See the contradiction? Cat rights bigger than practically self-aware AI running military ship, during operation against dangrous hostiles, on which said cat shits on the carpet? Fine MRP example. Marine wanting to become a cyborg? Disgusiting LRP. The same world where Sexual Assault doesn't exist and if commited is less severly punished than marine refusing to deploy? Oh, gods hate this kind of crime, they punish it, so there is no need to keep it as illegal.
Try to keep MRP with those parameters in mind.

I swear to Kane, just as one of you guys get this funny yellow tab under nickname, you all change into blissful staff who always blames players and if someone also is blamed, players blame is definatelly bigger.


Rex Texas. Here, namecalled, nothing happens. As I said before, those like him know how and where to poke to not get burned.

okay good, we all know rex is a big shitter, if you see it happen, report them

[CABAL]

snip

Again and again: He knows exactly how to abuse space law in ways that any report won't be valid. It isn't just simple soft-grieffing, its reading ML so hard that you know it by the book from memory and then finding victims, who aren't.

Example I showed earlier happened to me personally and Rex Texas was the MP who was standing next to Charlie Req just awaiting shit to happen. He exactly knew that loophole lets him arrest any PFC who would be invited into other Squad Req by other PFC. He was standing there, he refused to grab the attachement from the floor I needed/wanted and then immediately went to arrest when other PFC let me in, saying I can come inside.

I ahelped that, I went to Furscord staff-help and the response I get was: "I personally wouldn't arrest PFC who would do that, but thats technically not against ML to arrest him for Tresspasing".
If I would be PVT and other guy PFC, he can let me in, but if we are of equal rank, he can't. Texas knows this well enough. Those are MPs who know how and where to poke to not get burned. You can't just say "report him", because he is well aware that he might be reported, so he abuses flawed Marine Law which now got LRP laws with even bigger loopholes like Jones Rights. Its not hard to belive that he would ask CO if he can take his cat to brieffing, then let it sit somewhere and then arrest PFCs for "Sexual Harrasement" as Jones never stated he wanted to be pet.

Even after latest ML rework, this loophole still exist. PFC can let PVT to the area this PFC has access, but he can't let other PFCs. And this doesn't have any sense, because PFCs don't have access to areas that other PFCs shouldn't be. One Prep doesn't have anything that other doesn't.

[Medi]

I could only imagine how hard it is to maintain "MRP" when LRP laws are hardcoded into Marine Law, when nobody (yes, especially higher ups) takes CM world serious.
CM doesn't run "equivalent" of Nuke Ops. Its way closer to Miners going into lavaland to fight fauna there and sometimes fauna comes to the station. If some shithead Sec would arrest people during Nuke Ops, he would be lynched no matter how good he would obey spess law, because what he actually does is decreasing chance of his side to win. Yet another reason why people don't like MPs. No matter if Jesus Christ was CMP with Dalai Lama, Ghandi and Mother Teresa as his MPs, they would be seens as the worst scum for arresting crew during emergency for minor shit.

I don't really see players as major/only obstacle to MRP. You can look at other servers, how HRP ones exist? Oh, I wonder. Miracle? Ancient Artifacts embeded into server room where they store their data? No, the answer is that Admemes treat those servers seriously. Damned Vore Station takes world presented in their server more seriously than CM world is taken.

The only real difference between "normal" servers and CM is that "normal" servers rounds aren't so god damn repetitive and stale. This is what pushes people into doing stupid stuff. This is why some throw eggs at CO, this is why some break windows, this is why some are generally disruptive (we of course have to exclude universal shitlers who would LRP and/or grieff on the best run server there could be).
This and also stupid restictions. Imagine that CM world is one where Commander's cat has more rights than AI who is running entire fucking ship and is definatelly more self-aware both OOC and IC. The same world just happens to not have transhumanists who would like their fleshy limbs changed into kickass cybernetics, because its not what "sane" marine would want.
See the contradiction? Cat rights bigger than practically self-aware AI running military ship, during operation against dangrous hostiles, on which said cat shits on the carpet? Fine MRP example. Marine wanting to become a cyborg? Disgusiting LRP. The same world where Sexual Assault doesn't exist and if commited is less severly punished than marine refusing to deploy? Oh, gods hate this kind of crime, they punish it, so there is no need to keep it as illegal.
Try to keep MRP with those parameters in mind.

I swear to Kane, just as one of you guys get this funny yellow tab under nickname, you all change into blissful staff who always blames players and if someone also is blamed, players blame is definatelly bigger.


Rex Texas. Here, namecalled, nothing happens. As I said before, those like him know how and where to poke to not get burned.

What makes this so difficult really is a few concepts that you've touched on but I think you don't see the other side of the fence, namely the enforcement side of things.

1. As far as I am concerned, there is a high-degree of server wide chaos at all times that is perpetuated by two factions that are highly armed/capable of fighting one another for extended periods of time. As far as there being issues for when a "fauna" comes up, yes I can get that. But the core mechanics at play here don't really care about location, it's server wide chaos that at first starts off in the Xeno's backyard and sometimes ends up in the Marine's. That being the case, you got a bunch of people who are constantly running around equipped with firearms and explosives. I can't begin to tell you how many New Players get banned because they instantly get a gun and start shooting up Marines because they feel like that's what they're suppose to do. Those guys get bwoinked, usually never respond, then get banned. So on a server when you got over 60+ Marines, if it's not to that magnitude, Ill be honest- as a mod I don't wanna have to police up the entire server for minor issues.

2. Everyone keeps bringing in the "Cat vs ARES" thing. I get it, it's a damn cat. However, what really needs to be added is a "Sabatoge" charge under Capital punishments for specifically messing with ARES. Right now, messing with ARES (which rarely ever happens when I am around) is currently very difficult as he's not That easy to damage. On top of that, that doesn't stop Admins from using ARES messages, so really adding a charge for ARES doesn't make THAT much sense. Marines can and have fucked with Jones though and since is your Bosses, Bosses, Bosses' cat- probably not a good idea. That's literally the only clause in Marine Law at current that could be considered "LRP" so to go saying we whole server is messed up because of a clause about a Cat is so far reaching that it isn't even funny. If players are doing LRP it isn't because of Jones the cat. It's usually because they make a very bad decision that they think is a great new idea.

3. Stagnation of round and boredom is something I can get. However, you go from calling out Mods for "being out of touch" and blaming people to also agreeing that we should remove MPs and have the administration enforce everything. Which is it? I'll be honest, the mass majority of players who are breaking ML, from what I have seen, are completely aware of the fact that they're breaking it. New guys do cross those lines, sure, but they're honestly easier to sus out between them and the old timer who's trying to take advantage of what they think is a "grey area" in the law but they're just straight in violation of it. From there, they usually then proceed to make a ton of Ahelps thinking that we're going to swoop in and bust them out. This happens often. Now if this is due to boredom, then suggest something that is going to break up the core issue here and that being what some may see is monotony. Amending the laws to remove "LRP", as pointed out in part 2, really would target 1 law thus far and even then. Say we remove it? Then what? The server magically is suppose to be better at MRP? That's a player decision.

In the end, I don't blame players for anything more than their individual actions that they choose to take. That's all anyone can be held accountable for. Now what I am asking is for is some legitimate suggestions to actually fix the system and make it more enjoyable for everyone. If people are jailbreaking because they have some sorta metagrudge against all MPs, well- they aren't going to like the outcome of that. If people are jailbreaking because they legitimately feel like there isn't a decent enough remedy in place to handle it ICly / OOCly- then that's something we are attempting to discuss and address.

[CABAL]

... However, you go from calling out Mods for "being out of touch" and blaming people to also agreeing that we should remove MPs and have the administration enforce everything. Which is it?

Find me one post in this thread where I agreed that you should remove MPs, please.

1. New players shouldn't be even brough up to the discussion, you can't do anything about that.
I don't say you have to police each and every marine, but if random ammount of Mods can't do it, two-three MPs will?
I bet it isn't that hard to pinpoint and bwoink anyone who throws eggs at CO, or kills Jones, or kills other marine etc.
Also location has much to this situation. Nobody complains about LRP groundside, its always and everything about shipside.

2. Yes, Sabotage should be added as a charge.
Yes, cat law is literally the only law that could be considered LRP, but... Its the first and most recent where staff tries to combat LRP via LRP means and so fucking specific. Why not add another law that eggs being thrown at superior officer is a capital crime? Why not add each and every LRP action that marines can do shipside in ML? Huh? Why not? Each and every possible LRP should be added to LRP to make bigass list, with each and every LRP behaviour taking as much space as cat law.
Its the mark of the new, retarded, LRP future for CM. Directly and literally comming from the staff who doesn't care about dealing with shitlers OOC, so they think leaving it to MP is better. If somebody wants to kill a cat, he will fucking do it, puny law will not stop him.
Yes, Cat Law isn't causing players to behave LRP, but it validates their behaviour. If there ever would be solid ground on what is LRP and what is MRP, fucking cat laws would be in LRP section as textbook example. Example that staff agreed. Example that changed nothing, besides making whole ML LRP. Its like adding some shitty joke into Constitution. Constitution with fucking silly joke is worth less than a fucking paper its writted on.
LRP shouldn't be fought via LRP. LRP creates more LRP.

3. Yes, removing Cat Law would improve MRP, because ML wouldn't have LRP in it, because world would be more belivelable and maybe someone would start to fucking care? Its literally the same as Janitor job on SS13. Some say its shitty, uneeded etc, but he is the first one to combat LRP. If people see station flooded with blood, vomit and trash, they treat it this way.
Yes, boredom is a major contributor to LRP on the server. Its always the same stale benos. Once a blue moon there is event which... Guess what... Is LRP!
It was suggested 10000000000000000000 times what we can do to combat boredom. Self-run HvH rounds, Self-run zombie rounds, shipside antags and such. Guess what... Suggestions ignored.

In the end: Start taking fucking CM world seriously, go hog wild, start harshly banning shitlers for a week, then after that week see results. Stop complaing more than a fucking benomain who thinks Buckshot stuns T3s, or that shotgun self-aims, or that shotgun self-shoots.

START... TO... CARE...

[Medi]

Find me one post in this thread where I agreed that you should remove MPs, please.

1. New players shouldn't be even brough up to the discussion, you can't do anything about that.
I don't say you have to police each and every marine, but if random ammount of Mods can't do it, two-three MPs will?
I bet it isn't that hard to pinpoint and bwoink anyone who throws eggs at CO, or kills Jones, or kills other marine etc.
Also location has much to this situation. Nobody complains about LRP groundside, its always and everything about shipside.

2. Yes, Sabotage should be added as a charge.
Yes, cat law is literally the only law that could be considered LRP, but... Its the first and most recent where staff tries to combat LRP via LRP means and so fucking specific. Why not add another law that eggs being thrown at superior officer is a capital crime? Why not add each and every LRP action that marines can do shipside in ML? Huh? Why not? Each and every possible LRP should be added to LRP to make bigass list, with each and every LRP behaviour taking as much space as cat law.
Its the mark of the new, retarded, LRP future for CM. Directly and literally comming from the staff who doesn't care about dealing with shitlers OOC, so they think leaving it to MP is better. If somebody wants to kill a cat, he will fucking do it, puny law will not stop him.
Yes, Cat Law isn't causing players to behave LRP, but it validates their behaviour. If there ever would be solid ground on what is LRP and what is MRP, fucking cat laws would be in LRP section as textbook example. Example that staff agreed. Example that changed nothing, besides making whole ML LRP. Its like adding some shitty joke into Constitution. Constitution with fucking silly joke is worth less than a fucking paper its writted on.
LRP shouldn't be fought via LRP. LRP creates more LRP.

3. Yes, removing Cat Law would improve MRP, because ML wouldn't have LRP in it, because world would be more belivelable and maybe someone would start to fucking care? Its literally the same as Janitor job on SS13. Some say its shitty, uneeded etc, but he is the first one to combat LRP. If people see station flooded with blood, vomit and trash, they treat it this way.
Yes, boredom is a major contributor to LRP on the server. Its always the same stale benos. Once a blue moon there is event which... Guess what... Is LRP!
It was suggested 10000000000000000000 times what we can do to combat boredom. Self-run HvH rounds, Self-run zombie rounds, shipside antags and such. Guess what... Suggestions ignored.

In the end: Start taking fucking CM world seriously, go hog wild, start harshly banning shitlers for a week, then after that week see results. Stop complaing more than a fucking benomain who thinks Buckshot stuns T3s, or that shotgun self-aims, or that shotgun self-shoots.

START... TO... CARE...

I think me creating this thread is evidence that the staff team cares, or at least I do. So trying to call us out for such is kinda moot at best and not helping anyone. Lay off the ad hominems.

I'm just going to remind you what we're here to talk about: Jail-breaks.
That being said, 1 law isn't the LRP engine nor was it the "Green Light" for people to do LRP. We've been addressing LRP from people for far before that. You can ask Nanu why he decided to put that law in there to begin with but to blame a new law for an age-old problem makes no sense to begin with. Additionally, it doesn't make it any easier on the "random" amount of Mods who have to address people who are actually breaking Rules by removing MPs and giving every ML a rule.

As far as "Complaining" is concerned, I am the one who is just thinking about the actual end-point that you're suggesting that you aren't considering. Let's say the Mods go "hog-wild" and start banning "Shitlers" for a week. Firstly, if we started getting really strict, we'd be a ghost town with how many people would be getting bans of different lengths. We don't let things slide but we add an element of understanding to the situations. But that perception alone doesn't get taken as "Gee, the mods/admins are really wanting us to be more MRP oriented" it turns into the: "We need to quit this server because you get banned for anything". If you don't think that's how that turns out, take a look at places like reddit that openly talks about such incidents with servers, some of which don't exist anymore.

MRP verses LRP really isn't the primary issue here and quit trying to make it some kinda soapbox of righteousness over one rule in a new Law book that just came out. People have been Jailbreaking for a lot longer, people have been doing LRP for a lot longer, but getting back to jail-breaks: if they're jail-breaks because of Jones the Cat and it's Benos- yeah I guess they deserve a ban.

However, the one thing I can agree with you is that we do need more events that maybe that will ease such. Doesn't really even begin to address my topic of this thread but it's something we can agree on. However, that's admin only and as a mod, I can't do anything about that.

[CABAL]

I think me creating this thread is evidence that the staff team cares, or at least I do. So trying to call us out for such is kinda moot at best and not helping anyone. Lay off the ad hominems.

I'm just going to remind you what we're here to talk about: Jail-breaks.
That being said, 1 law isn't the LRP engine nor was it the "Green Light" for people to do LRP. We've been addressing LRP from people for far before that. You can ask Nanu why he decided to put that law in there to begin with but to blame a new law for an age-old problem makes no sense to begin with. Additionally, it doesn't make it any easier on the "random" amount of Mods who have to address people who are actually breaking Rules by removing MPs and giving every ML a rule.

I gave response to both original post and follow up. You didn't directly responded, so for what reason you remind me about the main "goal" of this thread?

Making a thread that will lead to no change isn't "caring". It really is just a shitpost where we can vent our frustation and change nothing.
I won't "Lay off the ad hominems", because the situation demands using it. Who added LRP law to ML? Players, isn't it?

I don't have to ask Nanu, since boomer responded why this law was added:
nOOOOOO!!!!.jpg
Because players were killing Jones (IC LRP action) cat law was added (OOC LRP action) to combat it via MPs. Instead of doing the normal thing of either ignoring cat kills and leaving it IC, or bwoinking/banning LRP'ers we got this. The worst possible solution. Its like Jones spawns in Brieffing, right? Its not like Jones is keept hidden behind atleast 3 pairs of doors that no PFC/SG/SPEC/SL has access to, right?

Really... Is this that hard to pinpoint why people LRP? Only 2 situations with rare exceptions:
1) Just straight up grieffers who do stupid things for the sake of it.
2) Bored people who play CM because it gives them guns, but can't wait to actually shoot them, thus do shenanigans before, while and after the brieffing.

Why people want to break into jail to get other rines out? Besides actually reading my posts on the first page:
1) The fastest and most reliable way. No faxes that are mostly never answered. No begging CO who either ordered the arrest, or was aware of it and did nothing.
2) Lets PFCs to "punish" MPs/Command who (in their eyes) have wronged them.
Some of that might be also point 1) from "why people LRP".

As far as "Complaining" is concerned, I am the one who is just thinking about the actual end-point that you're suggesting that you aren't considering. Let's say the Mods go "hog-wild" and start banning "Shitlers" for a week. Firstly, if we started getting really strict, we'd be a ghost town with how many people would be getting bans of different lengths. We don't let things slide but we add an element of understanding to the situations. But that perception alone doesn't get taken as "Gee, the mods/admins are really wanting us to be more MRP oriented" it turns into the: "We need to quit this server because you get banned for anything". If you don't think that's how that turns out, take a look at places like reddit that openly talks about such incidents with servers, some of which don't exist anymore.

MRP verses LRP really isn't the primary issue here and quit trying to make it some kinda soapbox of righteousness over one rule in a new Law book that just came out. People have been Jailbreaking for a lot longer, people have been doing LRP for a lot longer, but getting back to jail-breaks: if they're jail-breaks because of Jones the Cat and it's Benos- yeah I guess they deserve a ban.

However, the one thing I can agree with you is that we do need more events that maybe that will ease such. Doesn't really even begin to address my topic of this thread but it's something we can agree on. However, that's admin only and as a mod, I can't do anything about that.

Firstly, if you would announce that you go really strict, only those who never should be on the server on the first place would complain. If somebody wouldn't want to be punished, but doesn't think he can stop LRP'ing, he wouldn't play for that week.
Secondly: Why do we care that some redditors will write bad posts about CM? Oh no, how horrible! Yet another post about how admemes are bad, because they banned me when I have broken rules on their servers!
Just that. Announce you go harsh for a week, call it "cleansing" or something like that. Give people few days to acknowledge that fact.
Why CM needs High Pop? Or rather why CM needs High Pop more than it needs to be MRP server? Why you are so afraid of that? Do you want players who won't be able to restrain themselfs from throwing eggs, or shouting memes for a week? I sure as hell wouldn't want those kind of people on my server if I would have one and it would "aim" at MRP.

I addressed the topic on the first page, but I suppose you didn't noticed it.

What staff really wants CM to be? Real goal is MRP? If so, then how you would want to achieve it without your intervention? MPs are somewhat needed, but they aren't like Atlas, carrying MRP of the entire server. They are just mall cops without real villans to fight with, brigging for minor stuff that happens because players are bored, or straight up grieffers. Brigging both kind of players doesn't solve their issue. Being brigged doesn't give marines anything fun to do and being brigged doesn't discourage grieffers from grieffing.

If you want MRP, then start to act MRP, start to enforce MRP, start to truly care as Acts are more valuable that mere words.
Or just state you don't care about MRP, I won't complain either. Whole argument is about one sentence: "We aim CM to be MRP". Remove that sentence and I won't have even a single problem.