On Jailbreaks

[Corocan]

Start taking fucking CM world seriously, go hog wild, start harshly banning shitlers for a week, then after that week see results.

if we started getting really strict, we'd be a ghost town with how many people would be getting bans of different lengths.

Why CM needs High Pop? Or rather why CM needs High Pop more than it needs to be MRP server? Why you are so afraid of that? Do you want players who won't be able to restrain themselfs from throwing eggs, or shouting memes for a week? I sure as hell wouldn't want those kind of people on my server if I would have one and it would "aim" at MRP.

Cabal's said a lot on this thread about roleplay standards already, but this is honestly the most valid point I've seen them make. I know you think that roleplay standards aren't relevant to the conversation, but you can draw a direct line between those standards, how MP/Marine relations work, and things that both parties do to each other in attempts to antagonize each other (of which one of those 'things' are jailbreaks).

But in an effort to stay on topic, I think that jailbreaks should not be happening more often than mutinies. They're extremely intrusive to the round flow, as are mutinies, and should not be allowed to happen without very valid reasons that border on gross incompetence from the MPs/Command. If this is the case, it should be escalated to staff intervention 9 times out of 10.

[Medi]

Welp, without getting into another argument about the macro-economics of MRP vs. LRP and why enforcing such isn't so black and white (Because it's really really not and you can destroy a server that way), I think I got enough relevant answers to potentially work with it.

[xenofood]

Welp, without getting into another argument about the macro-economics of MRP vs. LRP and why enforcing such isn't so black and white (Because it's really really not and you can destroy a server that way), I think I got enough relevant answers to potentially work with it.

Here's something to consider when debating how much of a population drop would we see if LRP was punished more harshly:

How many players do you think would leave because they can't throw eggs at briefing, and how many of them would go "Oh, it's not allowed anymore? Oh alright then."

Much like solving the matter isn't just black and white, the player population is shades of gray too. You have your standard newbie who doesn't know better, shitter who won't learn better, veterans that just wanna pew pew xenos, veterans that wanna RP and literally anything inbetween. Players, reasonable players, old and new, can be talked to and taught how to behave and I can guarantee you there's more people who wouldn't mind not being able to throw eggs, than people who start calling mods nazis and go full on grief mode or leave the server. If you want a good playerbase, you have to teach them how to be, and that is something both mods and players have to do. Mods enforce a certain standard and veteran players lead by example.

I remember one time, we had a rave party in briefing. Someone brought smoke grenades, people lazed dots and we all danced in the smoke. It was funny, but definitely LRP. But I assumed that it was okay, which at the time it seemed to be. If I got bwoinked for it, I would go "Oh sorry, I'll stop."

A lot of people are more reasonable than they appear and only do silly things because they're allowed to and won't really complain if they're told to stop.

[Medi]

Absolutely aware and agree with all that. Players are obviously people and people respond differently to different situations. Before I was a mod here I ran my own server elsewhere. Educating is what I do more then punishment but the amount of "oh sorry I'll stop" is much lower in practice then you think. Additionally, the provisions outlined by others advocated that mods do a lot more than tell people to stop which I wont get into anymore since its talked to death.

Right now, you're already talking about what we currently do more or less because we understand players are people. But the definition and enforcement of LRP isnt so easy as you even pointed out. A rave like that is fine given timing, circumstances, and what's involved. Its case by case. which is why it's hard to say: "No LRP at all". A server and a community is a living breathing thing, it transcends the individuals that make it up. You cant slap a lot of blanket labels that will work and I dont think LRP is one of them.

[ChainsawMullet]

Why would you expect marines to roleplay when it comes to MPs, if MPs themselves don't roleplay 99% of the time?

The entire system, as well as the rules surrounding it, basically only allows for jailbreaks or praying a mod will care (they won't, nobody cares) about a marine law ahelp.

[Ausrine]

The Armed forces have lawyers. These lawyers represent the armed forces in commercial exchanges with manufacturers, logistics companies, PMCs, etc. They also represent armed forces members guilty of breaking the law. So, do something similar. Have a Marine lawyer who is equal to the CMP and has some ability to defend marines, while the CMP acts as the prosecutor. We have a whitelist for COs, and admins take the role of the advisor or admirals, etc. They can be called in to listen to both arguments to make a decision on guilty/not guilty for anything requiring permanent confinement.

If there isn't any real evidence of a crime then going to a player to get another player released, not pardoned by a player who is super busy with frankly more important tasks for a round, makes sense. It would give all shipside players another person to interact with, more to do, etc. The lawyer would act as a sort of investigator. They can relay faxes, such as for appeals or clemency. They can supervise non-confinement orders. They'd interrogate people. Make a case. Let the CMP have the power to agree with a report made by a lawyer stating there isn't enough evidence to charge, and that someone should be released, if it's not a permanent confinement level crime. They can even be someone a player is sent to assist, for say 20 minutes, to avoid a brig sentence. And if they break that then they deserve confinement.

This would also add a nice person for the CL to speak to regarding hiring PMCs, doing experiments, etc. This would, again, free up time for the CO and/or XO to focus on groundside combat, with the lawyer reporting to them like the CMP, CMO, CME and SOs do.

[Moosetasm]

Snip

This.

[solidfury7]

The Armed forces have lawyers. These lawyers represent the armed forces in commercial exchanges with manufacturers, logistics companies, PMCs, etc. They also represent armed forces members guilty of breaking the law. So, do something similar. Have a Marine lawyer who is equal to the CMP and has some ability to defend marines, while the CMP acts as the prosecutor. We have a whitelist for COs, and admins take the role of the advisor or admirals, etc. They can be called in to listen to both arguments to make a decision on guilty/not guilty for anything requiring permanent confinement.

If there isn't any real evidence of a crime then going to a player to get another player released, not pardoned by a player who is super busy with frankly more important tasks for a round, makes sense. It would give all shipside players another person to interact with, more to do, etc. The lawyer would act as a sort of investigator. They can relay faxes, such as for appeals or clemency. They can supervise non-confinement orders. They'd interrogate people. Make a case. Let the CMP have the power to agree with a report made by a lawyer stating there isn't enough evidence to charge, and that someone should be released, if it's not a permanent confinement level crime. They can even be someone a player is sent to assist, for say 20 minutes, to avoid a brig sentence. And if they break that then they deserve confinement.

This would also add a nice person for the CL to speak to regarding hiring PMCs, doing experiments, etc. This would, again, free up time for the CO and/or XO to focus on groundside combat, with the lawyer reporting to them like the CMP, CMO, CME and SOs do.

I've done similar things like this.

We had the RO, CE and CMO be the Jury, the XO was the judge, I, the CMP was the prosecution and the CL was the defence.

This took a fair amount of time to set up and I cannot imagine it being used in the case of most prisoners.

It would be a very interesting thing to setup, however in practice, most rounds occur far too fast for these things to happen on a more than rare basis.

It could be possible to add a dedicated lawyer role, however, that in practice is the CL as it is. You could possibly rework the role so they have a legal right to speak to prisoners, that is not something I, a CMP main would be against, (In non-red alerts anyway).

So yeah, fluff out the CL in marine law to give them limited access to prisoners.

[Ausrine]

Or add a lawyer role and free the CL from having to do it, while giving the CL more purpose and direction by providing them someone to interact with in relation to agreements with the USMC.

Additionally, I would only do a 'court' for those in perma. That's usually only 1-3 people in any given round based on what I've seen. Please do correct me if I'm wrong there Solid Fury, as you definitely have way more experience.

[AlbertBlackwell]

theres some good mods and most are "meh". jailbreaks depend entirely on mod RNG. i've ahelped when i've been a CE and i wanted to break my MT outta jail they said sure. however if another mod had taken the ahelp it'll be declined.


everything depends on mod rng.