On Jailbreaks

[solidfury7]

Or add a lawyer role and free the CL from having to do it, while giving the CL more purpose and direction by providing them someone to interact with in relation to agreements with the USMC.

Additionally, I would only do a 'court' for those in perma. That's usually only 1-3 people in any given round based on what I've seen. Please do correct me if I'm wrong there Solid Fury, as you definitely have way more experience.

The lawyer role would be very situational and would give the CL something to do on rounds where they get "shit down" by the CO and command. It'd also add some potential for shady stuff as well.

The court is a decent idea, however the issue with such mechanics is. If they're a requirement. They can get a bit sticky when things are a bit hectic.

It's always best to base the general game design as "Will this survive cm at its most hectic." and unfortunately slow paced things (which I do enjoy) rarely do in practice and are better summoned in quieter or longer rounds. If you want to hit me up on discord, I could go in to greater depth but I won't fill up too much more of this thread with the hypertheticals.

[Ausrine]

I think the CL already has plenty to do, but not enough willing people to do it with. Rather than give them yet more to do, this gives them someone to do it while also providing marine players with someone that is actually on side (and that they would more likely trust) to help them.

CL:
Research control and usefulness - but researchers busy
Worrying about the colony - but nobody listens
Faxes to WY - many go unanswered
Mercenary stuff - is not the norm in rounds and requires admin involvement
Alien capture - Mostly standing around, looking at aliens in cells, trying to stop marines killing them
Speaking to Command to try to get things agreed - But Command are super busy
Shifty corporate hijinks - Which MPs directly oppose, having little else to do (such as a lawyer to interact with and challenging them)
Going to the planet to directly inspect things - This is often giving up on roleplay. It's certainly giving up on shipside roleplay, but can be great for those on planet
Recruiting USMC staff - Illegal unless they're being signed on for when they finish their USMC duties (i.e. in advance). Requires willing roleplayers among USMC ground pounders

I really think they have enough to do. The trouble is the lack of people to do stuff with. A lawyer would help cover some of the above things.

As for court mechanics - have it be the default for anyone in perma, but their rights are instantly suspended as soon as blue alert is declared, and voided entirely at red alert. E.g. You resume things when a blue alert changes to green. With a red alert, even if it later returned to green, some emergency procedure would take over (such as taking all prisoners to the escape pods).

Honestly, I believe this could definitely survive CM at its most hectic. The hectic stuff takes place on the planet where there is fighting, and very, very rarely on the ship. By the time it is happening on the ship it's code red and the standard marine law and procedure is out the window. The same would apply here.

Agreed however, best not to fill up the thread further with this. If others like the idea they can say so. If not, c'est la vie.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

All you people calling for removal of MPs.

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for throwing eggs at the CO"

[xenofood]

All you people calling for removal of MPs.

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for throwing eggs at the CO"

I have no input on the MP removal one way or the other, however for this hypothetical situation: If you tell a player not to do something three times and they go ahead and do it a fourth time, is that the kind of player you want?

[spookydonut]

All you people calling for removal of MPs.

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for throwing eggs at the CO"

I'd argue those players should be permabanned anyway. a ban for that implies at some point they were told "stop doing that" and didn't. and then did it 3 more times.

[davidofmk771]

All you people calling for removal of MPs.

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for throwing eggs at the CO"

I don't like this example because it's far more rare than other breaks of marine law, and it is an actual example of objective LRP that is technically OOCly condoned by the existence of marine law.

How about this:
Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for calling their SO mean words"

or

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for breaking windows on the ship before DS hijack"

or how about

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for punching other marine players"

People demanding removal of the MP role and codification of marine law into OOC rules has no idea what they're actually asking for. That, or they must have never liked the server culture from the start.

[xenofood]

I don't like this example because it's far more rare than other breaks of marine law, and it is an actual example of objective LRP that is technically OOCly condoned by the existence of marine law.

How about this:
Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for calling their SO mean words"

or

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for breaking windows on the ship before DS hijack"

or how about

Imagine having to process a permaban request because "This player has already had 4 bans this month for punching other marine players"

People demanding removal of the MP role and codification of marine law into OOC rules has no idea what they're actually asking for. That, or they must have never liked the server culture from the start.

All of those hypothetical scenarios would mean that the player did something, was warned and maybe had a short ban and then when they got back, did the same thing three more times, presumably getting 3 warnings in total and permaban on the fourth. You can't possibly defend a player that gets three warnings and then does the same thing again.

[Nyvrem]

All of those hypothetical scenarios would mean that the player did something, was warned and maybe had a short ban and then when they got back, did the same thing three more times, presumably getting 3 warnings in total and permaban on the fourth. You can't possibly defend a player that gets three warnings and then does the same thing again.

Except sometimes if the SO is called mean words and they deserve it, the CO just laughs at them when they call in the MPs. Hell, sometimes the SO doesn't even call the MPs, because they know they fucked up. You don't want bans to be even more subjective than the natural biases we as human beings posses already make them, do you?

Is it LRP to call your superiour officer mean words when he basically only tells your squad what your squad needs to know to get themselves surrounded? There's actually a term for when officers ignore disrespect because of extenuating circumstance and real life examples rarely get as bad as a Lieutenant accidentally blowing up half their squad with an OB.

[davidofmk771]

All of those hypothetical scenarios would mean that the player did something, was warned and maybe had a short ban and then when they got back, did the same thing three more times, presumably getting 3 warnings in total and permaban on the fourth. You can't possibly defend a player that gets three warnings and then does the same thing again.

My point is that removing MPs and translating marine law charges into OOC rules would be a harsh shakeup for the server culture and, personally, I would not agree with it in any sense.

If you hate getting arrested by the MPs and take it as a personal offence, treat marine law like it is a series of OOC rules. Don't break marine law at all, act as if doing so would net you a ban anyway, because that's basically what removing MPs will accomplish. Problem solved.
There are people who do break marine law, understanding the risk and the level of MRP they are expected to partake in when they can no longer run from the law (such as not killing MPs, or calling for jailbreaks), and carry it out until they are let back into the game.

If you don't like that killing the cat gets you a murder charge, just make in an insanity charge because killing healthy animals for no reason is considered to be aberrational behavior by modern psychological standards. Soldiers have been convicted IRL for killing stray dogs on camera in Iraq.
If you don't like that PVTs can be arrested for things they didn't know are wrong, try to encourage better understanding of server culture among new players, or suggest a gitlab to somehow change this (like dropping of minor charges in the presence of an SEA).
If you are mad about one "loophole" or another, make a suggestion on gitlab that closes the loophole. There is no reason for squaddies to be charged with trespassing for being in another squad's prep room anyways.

But demanding removal of the MPs and further reducing what you can and can't do on the server OOCly seems like such an overreaction that maybe it's delving into meta-grudge territory. There are plenty of solutions other than that, and to immediately jump on the "remove an entire role that people enjoy playing because I don't like it" train betrays some sort of personal upset, rather than a desire to see the server's quality of interaction between players improve.

[xenofood]

But demanding removal of the MPs and further reducing what you can and can't do on the server OOCly seems like such an overreaction that maybe it's delving into meta-grudge territory.

Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think removing MPs will help, that's me merely pointing out that players who break a rule they were warned about three times are kinda shit players.

It IS an overreaction, hence why I keep pointing out that we should all sit down, put up a notice when you launch the game to get more people to cast their vote and share thoughts, have a big round discussion, civil discussion, to fully establish how we're going to deal with this, what kind of MRP we want CM13 to be and how we're going to enforce/encourage it. Discussing it in this and the Jones thread is all well and good, but it's not going to produce meaningful results.

The problem right now is that we have a set of Marine Law that was thought up and updated over time based on latest events, plus the general slooow descent into letting minor LRP slide, which SOMETIMES snowballs into larger LRP happening and at a certain point, if someone joins the server and sees what's going on, they won't be sure what's allowed and what's not. Hell, I wasn't sure my first few rounds either.

Again: Have a big discussion with as many people as possible to talk about the state and future of RP on CM13 and work from that.