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Thread: Are Marines getting better? Or are xenos getting balder?

  1. #11
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    I don't think it's the concept of using barricades that people are starting to dislike, but more so the FOB concept where marines build very strong defenses and refuse to either evacuate or attempt to push the xenos off their front lawn. This tends to result in very long rounds where the remaining living players are locked in what is effectively a stalemate. Staff are generally forced to intervene at some point if the marines won't push and the xenos can't breach, which just makes the side that loses feel like they were forced into an unwinnable situation. Some marines, in the same vein, hate the concept of being locked in a defensive stalemate because they feel it's possible to break out and push the xenos back, but only if enough marines join in the push, otherwise it will fail and the pushing marines will be wiped.

    Also trying to compare resin structures to the marine barricades is like trying to say a window and a wall are the same exact thing.

    I'm not sure where these threads about xenos being too bad/marines being too strong are coming from lol.

    In the past 7 days we have had (about) 77 true rounds.
    30 of those were xeno majors. (~39%)
    5 of those were xeno minors. (~6%)
    39 of those were marine majors. (~50%)
    1 was a marine minor. (~1%)
    2 were draws. (SD major, akin to a xeno minor almost. You could logically lump this into xeno minor if you wanted.) (~3%)

    Xeno winrate is ~45% (~48% if you included SDs)
    Marine winrate is ~51%
    percentages are rounded so small amounts are truncated.


    Win rates for both sides in the last 7 days are close to 50/50, what is happening?
    Last edited by Corocan; 05-13-2020 at 08:35 AM.

  2. #12
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    Just so you know, last night marines made forward cading at Tfort and deflatables to control those regions and a ravager salted about the use of cades to secure those areas. After which marine will push into the caves and perform a sortie. So it is definitely not about the FOB delay. It is really cade push, which come to think of it now it is pretty well executed. I didnt expect us to hold 2 different areas across the river in a round not run by Bill Carson.

    Your window and the wall comparison is off. Both are structures meant to impede movement and secure sectional control, each modified to suit the race. You dont need to shoot over resin walls as most of xeno castes are melee and marines are required to shoot over cades. If you fail to build to maintain control you deserve a defeat no matter what your excuse is, likewise failing to establish FOBs for marines mean no secure fort to defend against horde of xenos after a push failed. In essence, they are the same and the comparison is off as it only focuses on the form.

    I think CABAL started this winrate thing....or maybe it was someone else. This thread is just my 2 cents on xeno hive now because seeing it as it is now makes me sad, and I wish the hive could be better honestly.

    Not too sure about winrates, I guess I should observe more. I thought marines are still trashing xenos from what I see, but I guess the time I come on is when bald xenos come in.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    I think CABAL started this winrate thing....or maybe it was someone else. This thread is just my 2 cents on xeno hive now because seeing it as it is now makes me sad, and I wish the hive could be better honestly.
    I can't take "pride", as I don't know if anybody before me argued for (if it is a goal) balanced winrate, but at my beginning I do started to salt about winrate being both a goal and benobiased on top of that.
    Right now when winrate isn't a goal to maintain and admemes/devmemes don't get directives to make benos better, so its fine.

    When both sides start to complain equally then its sure good indicator that the game is indeed fair and balanced. If numbers that Corocan brought up are right, then we are in nearly perfect state, all we need is to fine tune details to make them fun and its all good.

    Sides generally don't complain if they are in much better position than the other, so here is that. Marines aren't getting better, benos aren't getting worse, its just balanced, so it confuses them both into state of: "Oof... They are winning and we are loosing... Reee!". Both marines and benos are guilty of that and threads that start popping about the same topic are the proof of that.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    Just so you know, last night marines made forward cading at Tfort and deflatables to control those regions and a ravager salted about the use of cades to secure those areas. After which marine will push into the caves and perform a sortie. So it is definitely not about the FOB delay. It is really cade push, which come to think of it now it is pretty well executed. I didnt expect us to hold 2 different areas across the river in a round not run by Bill Carson.
    I mean, if it's just one salting ravager, I'd be taking it with a grain of salt (no pun intended). I thought you were referring to the thoroughly discussed cadehugging dilemma going on here. I don't really see anything wrong with using barricades offensively. So uh... yeah, agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    Your window and the wall comparison is off. Both are structures meant to impede movement and secure sectional control, each modified to suit the race. If you fail to build to maintain control you deserve a defeat no matter what your excuse is, likewise failing to establish FOBs for marines mean no secure fort to defend against horde of xenos after a push failed. In essence, they are the same and the comparison is off as it only focuses on the form.
    I think it's pretty accurate. You're right in that they are 'both structures meant to impede movement and secure sectional control', but that's where the fundamental similarities stop. To reiterate, I'm speaking from the perspective of marines preferring to turtle in their FOBs against a xenomorph force for an unreasonable amount of time. Marines need to shit or get off the pot if they're going to hold a FOB for 30 minutes to an hour because they don't want to evacuate and they don't want to push.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    You dont need to shoot over resin walls as most of xeno castes are melee and marines are required to shoot over cades.
    I'm not trying to imply xenos should be/are able to shoot over their walls, so I'm not sure what you mean by this. It's the fact that xenos are, for the most part, forced to melee that makes sieging with them really costly. For aggressive barricades (like in chokes or at TFort) that's perfectly acceptable, because these barricades aren't as thick as FOB barricades and there's no requirement for xenos to breach them if they can't. It's just a location purely meant to force xenos into a corner if they allow marines to fortify it.


    Once again, I'm speaking mainly from the linked thread's perspective on drawn-out FOB sieges. They're just not really enjoyable for anyone involved, marine or xeno. I don't think trying to cade TFort or the filt cave choke is cheesing lol.

  5. #15
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    Ah my bad then, I guess I read your post from a different perspective. My approach was more on how sad a state the hive is and not so much on the mega FOB thing.

  6. #16
    Whitelisted Predator ChainsawMullet's Avatar
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    As a marine main I'd rather have 99% xeno winrate than have shitty fucking FOB meta.

    But yes, xenos are getting dumber. MOBA takes brainpower and skill to be good with (excluding a certain few bugs or just straight free win castes like Hedgehog), so the majority of xenos who were never really good at the game are performing even worse.

  7. #17
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    when moba came around there was nearly no change to marine gameplay

    pre-moba xenos were harder to deal with (besides rav) compared to now so they perform really well against them because their still built in a way to handle pre-moba xenos

  8. #18
    Senior Member DekoToast's Avatar
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    Aside from the fuck you, I win button that is playing hedgehog, I actually really enjoy the moba changes. I like the idea that xenos are a little less brainless now (comprehensive xenomed when), and to be honest, I've seen fairly balanced w/l as of late.
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  9. #19
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    I mean MOBA aside, I noticed that the level of xeno play and coordination have reduced gradually for quite some time now.

    I say that but now that the New Round Alert on Discord announces who wins and what major it is, and most of the are xeno major, I guess I was wrong. The xenos are probably getting stronger now.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casada_Radio View Post
    I mean MOBA aside, I noticed that the level of xeno play and coordination have reduced gradually for quite some time now.

    I say that but now that the New Round Alert on Discord announces who wins and what major it is, and most of the are xeno major, I guess I was wrong. The xenos are probably getting stronger now.
    Xeno power scaling has shifted VERY heavily towards the T3s and a few T2s like lurker now. If you have the robust players taking the T2 and T3 slots, you'll win a lot more often.

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