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Thread: I speak on behalf of that one salty kid who got blown up by a OB

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    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    I speak on behalf of that one salty kid who got blown up by a OB

    To save the readers of this post time on reading this app I will now summarize the message into a sentence.

    "Xenos so bad."

    To the esteemed community of colonial marine I bring to you the beefiest formal inquiry regarding the diservice provide to xenomorphs. Lately I find myself regretting switching my aftermath preference to spawn after unrevivable death simply because the life of a xenos has became worst then that of a observation sideliner.

    Some may take this as salt, and be that as it may- it comes with a hinge of hope that the devs gonna stop being marine bias.

    To start off I will listed xenomorph debacles that, can stand alone as driving arguments.

    -----

    All of the T1s are about as good as that one cousin who only knows how to get rebounds. As a Tier One xenomorph understandbly the idea is that your pretty much poke and retreat support and this varies heavily if your something like drone.

    To give some grace to the tier one caste in terms of the Runner xenos their arent any to particular flaws that could be noted for their stacture. However for Sentiels and drones this is when combativly useless comes into terms.
    -----

    A sentiels acid spit has a somewhat strict trajectory making it most time a miss shot unless your saucy with it. Arguably when upgraded to the shotgun a sentiel can become more fierce in fighting however this mutation runs at the cost the most essential stat that a t1 cannot afford to lose its speed, in addition to make use of it fully the sentiel needs to be within close range to land a solid blow(3/3) shot which runs the risk of being filled with lead on retreat. Granted in trade you get armor as a t1 that word is still nonexistant to say a well placed fragment or neaded. And after that first boom your speed, which is the next to become nonexistence for a few seconds as you recover from wake up making death almost ensured.

    -----

    And lastly drones understandbly the drone what your typically fully supportive caste should be; however I am a firm believer that every xenomorph should atleast be able to handle a capative. Drones being the ill equiped for combat is kinda just a meh to me but Id still want justice for them. One idea I had for drones was give them a skill that uses their inner mouth face to punch enemies and also equip them with a water down pounce.

    To wrap up T1 salt all three caste are meant to be pawn pieces to help shift the tide in battle but most of the time they are only good for body blocking and sacrificing to save a t3 just to die in the process to lead posioning and or OB.

    ----

    Moving on to T2 I wont break them down seperately but instead tie my complaint together in a large rumsack , drench it in gasoline and add it to the fire.

    Excluding Hivelords, most tier twos are only good for body blocking. Tier twos that arent given armor are as squishy as Tier ones with the downside that their only that much slower. For tier one and two the idea of picking and choosing fights are hightlighted in counter arguemnets however correct it may be, the definning downside to each of these is that each move these xenos have a more for poke and retreat play style which is the furthest from how a xeno should feel.

    *not only is poke and retreat boring when your up against hoards of marines but each poke run more risk than reward.*

    The controls for warrior xenos are terrible I could cry. Aside from lunge switching intent from killing to help, not only leaving you wide open for lead posioning as you drag your target but in the process you have to mannual switch back to killing to do any real damage to them.

    I find myself more times than not being hung over at the fact that warrior skills are so busted most time it doesnt work as I needed it to and its cause how the game how the skills mapped out with middle click and shift clicks.

    ---

    For t3

    Carriers are the greatest disjustice done to t3 in the nation of t3. A carrier should be able to implant egg embryo directly into knocked out marines without the need of facehuggers. Carriers should be the lifeline of the tribe in far as extended numbers as they should be able to fertlize host easier than a facehugger. Their function is so limited without facehuggers they become washed when the queen is either BR or dead.

    -----

    LASTLY THE t4

    The queen is supposedly the saving grace of the xenomorphs being the most equiped for combat, support you name it. Its clear the devs wanted the queen to be able to pick up the heavy load of the hive and is the true and only calvry xenos have to offer. When the queen is on the scene it is safe to assume that marines are pushing down on the xenos necks enough to the point where any further lose would mean unrecuperable collateral damage. Without the queen it is only a matter of time before the marines push their way through any xeno defense storm to the hive and wash everything with lead making it almost cruecial to optimize oving and really knowing when to send in the queen.

    The biggest down side to queen is that in the admist of a buckling frontline upon retreat the queen has THE WORST Speed. (honestly give this lady a toggle all four ability) In consideration to heavy and ignition ammo, injury stagger, swelling numbers, and low HP resulting in a further cut speed. retreating as a queen 7 out of time times is impossible without the sacrifice of your pawns.

    ------

    Lastly I'd like to address chokepoint holds, such as hive entrences and lz1 holdings. Xenomorphs have little control on the situation, wither its attacking or defense and is always forced to adapt where as to marines its a sequence of repeating events that may or may not lead to xenomorphs sieging the bird and extending the round. Xenos will find it hard to adapt to situation as due rapidly demenishing numbers meaning overtime less drones and hivelords to reinforce defense make for more or less easy time for marine firesquad.. Haulted potential numbers due to a deovied queen make it so that each hive death increases mission failure espically when you just had a OB take out all four of your drones hivelords and or boilers.

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    Senior Member MasterShakeEZ's Avatar
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    you are about to get blasted for having a differing opinion to 95% of the people that are gonna post here. You are not alone even if I dont agree with everything. Good luck bruh.

    Also Imagine buffing OBs to be even more ridiculous when you didnt even fix the sound problems so xenos have no idea they are coming.

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    Senior Member Pigeon's Avatar
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    Crushers are from chargers and chargers from runners, thus crushers should evolve from lurkers. They are now fat lurkers thus crushers should be lurker tier 3 evo. Prove me wrong

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    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterShakeEZ View Post
    you are about to get blasted for having a differing opinion to 95% of the people that are gonna post here. You are not alone even if I dont agree with everything. Good luck bruh.

    Also Imagine buffing OBs to be even more ridiculous when you didnt even fix the sound problems so xenos have no idea they are coming.
    I dont have to imagine it. I dont know which missle but one of them make a sound but have delayed entry. Then their are some that coincidently land right on my head with no warnings.

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    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Time to be big bad marinemain.

    "T1 Debate":

    Sure, T1s individualy aren't top tier at dealing with marines be it 1vs1 or group vs group. I would call each and every T1 as "support" caste (besides runner, who also can support, but can handle itself alone). They should use clever tactics instead of being simply a brute force, because if you make them good at being brute force, then they are incredibly broken when they start to use those advanced tactics. Thats my opinion and I think its shared when looking at current beno state and also looking back how things were.

    And yes, drone, runner, or every beno besides larvae is capable of capture. In some castes its more luck based on marine HP and crit, but some like Sentinel have it easier. While sentinel might be naded, or simply shoot down when he alone tries to neuro someobody, he won't be most likely when Rav, or other T3 will take Marine attention. Again, if Sentinel was beefy enough to handle quite easly on his own, he would be super duper good in cooperation.

    I also don't know why you say "... all three caste are meant..." when there is four T1s.

    Pawns aren't the one to help shift the tide in battle, pawns wait for opportunity that other, better figures create.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    Excluding Hivelords, most tier twos are only good for body blocking. Tier twos that arent given armor are as squishy as Tier ones with the downside that their only that much slower.
    I would argue that Hivelords are the one most likely to serve as body (and resin walls/doors) blockers than the others. Yeah, warrior doesn't have as much armor as defender has, but Warrior gets HP, speed and abilities. Lurker is about lurking and ambush, it doesn't need armor as it has speed on top of cloack. Spitter gets armor and the last beno which is Burrower is indeed lackluster, usefull only to dig those tunnels and deevolve to drone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    The controls for warrior xenos are terrible I could cry. Aside from lunge switching intent from killing to help, not only leaving you wide open for lead posioning as you drag your target but in the process you have to mannual switch back to killing to do any real damage to them.
    Who forces you to drag your target, instead of immediately punching?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    I find myself more times than not being hung over at the fact that warrior skills are so busted most time it doesnt work as I needed it to and its cause how the game how the skills mapped out with middle click and shift clicks.
    Sounds like its not a beno problem, but more like BYOND problem, or your inconvinience. For example, I don't see any better buttons that are accessible. I would personally like right-clicks to use beno abilities, but since its hardcoded into opening menu, then second best is for me to shift+click. In theory some macroable button that works simillary to "throw" where you can click it and then your next left-click will use ability could be something nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    Carriers are the greatest disjustice done to t3 in the nation of t3. A carrier should be able to implant egg embryo directly into knocked out marines without the need of facehuggers. Carriers should be the lifeline of the tribe in far as extended numbers as they should be able to fertlize host easier than a facehugger. Their function is so limited without facehuggers they become washed when the queen is either BR or dead.
    Why do you list Carrier as T3?
    Carrier should be able to do it, because? Because (for example) You don't want to wait for the egg to grow on hive weeds? With Queen thats the point, Queen should be in ovi, Queen shouldn't be dead. If Queen isn't in ovi its either hard marine push into the hive, or hard beno push into FoB. No long-term support for the Hive that either pushes hard, or is pushed hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    The biggest down side to queen is that in the admist of a buckling frontline upon retreat the queen has THE WORST Speed. (honestly give this lady a toggle all four ability) In consideration to heavy and ignition ammo, injury stagger, swelling numbers, and low HP resulting in a further cut speed. retreating as a queen 7 out of time times is impossible without the sacrifice of your pawns.
    Been there, saw that. Fast Queen means coward and delayliens Queen. In the past she had pre-moba crusher charge that was used 99% of the time to escape. Queen has enough abilities, HP, ressistances, armor, pheromones and other benos to escape marines, or die trying. One-hit neuro, screech, fire immunity, stun near-immunity, explosion hard ressistance, other benos and such.
    Since when ignition ammo does anything to a Queen? Since when heavy bullets do anything to a Queen? Since when low HP slow any beno down? If Queen decides to take entire squad of marines on her own, then its not something strange that beno sacrifaces has to be made to save her bald ass.

    OB is not in my range of "expertise" so I won't say anything.
    REDEMPTION

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    The issue, as always, comes with balance. Even seemingly simple changes can have far-reaching effects across all of gameplay. Raising the health or armor of a T1 only slightly might make it nigh on impossible to kill T1s that are attempting 1 on 1 hit & run tactics. Lowering their health or armor slightly might result in all of those same T1s dying during the same exact encounter.

    Considering how drastic the changes during the Xemoba updates have been, it’s is really a testament to the Devs that the game has maintained any semblance of balance at all. There have been missteps, yes. But there are always missteps. And the ones recently have not been as egregious as those I’ve seen for other games. Right now, the balance is very close to optimal, in that the win/loss ratios are not skewed so far in one direction that the other side just immediately gives up. More tinkering is being done, things are being changed, that both sides dislike.

    What is telling, is how much more skill level is beginning to impact game play. It’s not as high as some would like it, for sure. But there’s something to be said for rounds where a small group of maybe 5-6 marines successfully wipe out a 20 xeno strong hive all by themselves, where 100+ other marines failed, or rounds like one I saw yesterday, where 11 xenos won vs 80 some marines. The Queen, an elder Crusher, and an elder Rav took out the vast majority of those remaining forces by themselves.

    For every one marine that gets 6 xeno kills in a round because of “omg, buckshot shotgun OP, plz nerf,” there are two dozen marines who try the same exact tactic and get their faces torn off. So skill is a factor. And that’s not a bad thing.

    Anyways, just try to think about what your changes would mean, not just to the marine/xeno win ratio, but also what it would change in regard to player skill affecting the game. Making it easier does not mean making it better.

    P.S. Carrier is a T2, not a T3
    Nicholas Dean Roberts (AKA Nich ‘Burnin’ Bob’ Roberts) is an albino who dabbles in medicine, engineering, and fire, god help us all if he ever does them all at the same time.
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    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    To counter any marine counter argurement ; it took only one decon to dispatch an entire crew of fireteam. Also a marine finding themselves in a 1v1 versus a xeno shouldnt be a fair fight in the first place. Marines are heavily equipped with juiced up weapons (via attachments) grenedes, heavy ammo (slows on impact) and ignition ammo (set on fire).

    Where as a runner just have a pounce that do NO damage, nor atleast slows a marine down. And also the down time from a one tap shotgun is so fricken long you have enough time to attach a bayonet and finish em off to save ya bullets.
    Last edited by Ninshu; 06-01-2020 at 07:05 PM.

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    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moosetasm View Post
    The issue, as always, comes with balance. Even seemingly simple changes can have far-reaching effects across all of gameplay. Raising the health or armor of a T1 only slightly might make it nigh on impossible to kill T1s that are attempting 1 on 1 hit & run tactics. Lowering their health or armor slightly might result in all of those same T1s dying during the same exact encounter.

    Considering how drastic the changes during the Xemoba updates have been, it’s is really a testament to the Devs that the game has maintained any semblance of balance at all. There have been missteps, yes. But there are always missteps. And the ones recently have not been as egregious as those I’ve seen for other games. Right now, the balance is very close to optimal, in that the win/loss ratios are not skewed so far in one direction that the other side just immediately gives up. More tinkering is being done, things are being changed, that both sides dislike.

    What is telling, is how much more skill level is beginning to impact game play. It’s not as high as some would like it, for sure. But there’s something to be said for rounds where a small group of maybe 5-6 marines successfully wipe out a 20 xeno strong hive all by themselves, where 100+ other marines failed, or rounds like one I saw yesterday, where 11 xenos won vs 80 some marines. The Queen, an elder Crusher, and an elder Rav took out the vast majority of those remaining forces by themselves.

    For every one marine that gets 6 xeno kills in a round because of “omg, buckshot shotgun OP, plz nerf,” there are two dozen marines who try the same exact tactic and get their faces torn off. So skill is a factor. And that’s not a bad thing.

    Anyways, just try to think about what your changes would mean, not just to the marine/xeno win ratio, but also what it would change in regard to player skill affecting the game. Making it easier does not mean making it better.

    P.S. Carrier is a T2, not a T3
    in every way the marine outclass xenomorphs. Which is why it doesnt even take a competent squad of marines to best a hive- as show by the marines; xeno win ratio. Also xenomorph controls are kinda wonky with how it utlizes the mouse. This is more so evident when playing warrior as more times then not I find myself flustered at the fact that I spammed lunge three hundred times only for it to work twice if im lucky. I could just be a bad xeno player but I feel like they could've simplified it abit or make a keyboard adapted version.
    Last edited by Ninshu; 06-01-2020 at 07:10 PM.

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    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    I find myself having my speed cut when I am laced up with lead while playing as queen and also the screech on retreat isnt reliable when the marines can easily catch up to that slow poke as she trys to flea no matter where she go. Unless she have a way to slow them down as she leave or get missing before they can catch up.What the hive needs at this point is a behemoth and or sentry sentiel.

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    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    To counter any marine counter argurement ; it took only one decon to dispatch an entire crew of fireteam. Also a marine finding themselves in a 1v1 versus a xeno shouldnt be a fair fight in the first place. Marines are heavily equipped with juiced up weapons (via attachments) grenedes, heavy ammo (slows on impact) and ignition ammo (set on fire).

    Where as a runner just have a pounce that do NO damage, nor atleast slows a marine down. And also the down time from a one tap shotgun is so fricken long you have enough time to attach a bayonet and finish em off to save ya bullets.
    You mean it took only one Defcon to dispatch an entire crew of fireteam? What does it really prove? That marines reaching DEFCON 3 get reinforcements?
    Who said that marine fighting beno 1 vs 1 shouldn't be a fair fight? Generally it is supposed that benos should beat marine 1 vs 1 if both of them have equal skill. That should not be in a way that any bald beno should beat robust marine 1 vs 1. "Fair chance" doesn't mean "equal chance".

    Yeah, marines have attachements on weapons, but the game is balanced around those attachements. There is a reason why recent test against Ravager was conducted with M39 equipped with Barrel Charger. Attachements are generally about fitting a gun to certain role, not stright up buffs as most of the attachements have some downsides of having them. Yes, marines have grenades, but did you know that grenades cause more marine harm, than beno? Any grenade used by PFC has higher chance to scratch a beno and severly damage atleast one marine, than to wound only beno.

    Ammo that slows on impact would be the slug, that is RNG innacurate, that is RNG countered by evasion, deals very little damage, that has RNG scatter, that has rather low rate of fire, that presents great danger to any marine hit by it, that does NOTHING to T3s and certain T2s (Hivelord and Carrier).

    Down time from one tap of shotgun is long that you have time to attach bayonet? Boy, did you got dillusional, you won't have time to PB second time, not talking about doing anything else as the downtime is less than a second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    in every way the marine outclass xenomorphs. Which is why it doesnt even take a competent squad of marines to best a hive- as show by the marines; xeno win ratio. Also xenomorph controls are kinda wonky with how it utlizes the mouse. This is more so evident when playing warrior as more times then not I find myself flustered at the fact that I spammed lunge three hundred times only for it to work twice if im lucky. I could just be a bad xeno player but I feel like they could've simplified it abit or make a keyboard adapted version.
    In every way PFC outclasses T3 for example? Or T2? Spamming lunge is not a good tactic as each spam creates short cooldown on abilty and its made exactly to prevent bald benos from spamming abilities like lunge that actually "teleports" beno to the marine only if clicked directly on said marine sprite.

    The fact that you "forgot" that defender exist, put Carrier in T3 slot for some reason, present "counter-arguments" by simply stating some fact (like that DEFCON gives marines reinforcements, but so what? Nothing explained) and also present false information about shotgun stuns, I leave for others to judge.
    REDEMPTION

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