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Thread: I speak on behalf of that one salty kid who got blown up by a OB

  1. #21
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoseaPalindrome View Post
    Not sure if you were joking or not but this might be one of the problems in this thread. Not to say that your points aren't well made, but I generally think the skill level for xenos is way higher than marines. I've gotten lucky kills as a marine, I am lucky to get a single kill as a xeno and when I do i'm proud. I expect to generally be able to keep myself alive till the end of a marine round even when pushing. I go into xeno rounds ready to die. I've absolutely never been caught off guard as a marine that proved to be deadly (i get attacked from nearby vents by runners/T1's occasionally but they do so little damage that you just shoot a little on wake up, run away and you're fine, and even then i would probably get revived) I get fucked over by random grenades/SADAR/OB/Mortar on every single round as xeno. A good flank by xenos means you didn't lose your ENTIRE force before running into a cadeline, and you got some good caps to recoup the losses. Good marine flanks end games. I could go on forever

    Something Ninshu says that I agree with is that everything is centered around the Queen, it's why I don't even wanna try being one because I've never been one and it's a lot of pressure. Xenos cannot win without a Queen, CAN'T ORGANIZE AND DECIDE A NEW QUEEN (An absolutely bonkers decision I will never understand), and can't even push or do anything but wait until they die.

    I just don't think you can say a marine and a xeno are on the same playing field in general, I can't tell you the amount of times a single marine has killed me as a T1 OR some T2's, now imagine going against two marines. with shotguns. It's god awful.

    It's still fun to murderball or try to be useful in chokepoints or push with Queen. But I feel BAD dying as a xeno because it's announced in chat and you kinda let everyone down. And I expect I will die so I only try to learn new tiers when we're obviously winning.

    Like just from my experience you can be a derpy marine, grab shotguns and lots of explosives and get sick kills without that much of a learning curve. You need to be pretty competent as a xeno to be remotely useful.
    Skill level for benos was only recently brought up with MOBA update that might not be fine tuned to this day. Pre-Moba benos were definatelly requiring less skill than marine to get kills. "Lucky" kills are just that... They are "luckey", as marine you are forced to be around other marines, so its easier to get a lucky kill. Hang around T3s, or even T2s more (competent players I want to add, they usually use the same beno names like RAT, or something like that) and you will get your luckey kills as beno. You seem to be also "luckey" enough to be never ambushed, as current lurker can pounce from like 5 tile away from you (at the edge of armor lamp light), break bone, or two in few slashes and then escape. Competent runners can drive-by slash effectively. Shit happens and we all die to nades/SADAR/OB/mortar, even as marines. A good flank by benos vs good flank by marines is different in few details. Good marine flank is very hard to organise, marines don't have eyes lied on most of the map, marines don't see trough walls, marines can't really avoid detection etc. Bad beno flank results in beno retreating and maybe few losses, bad marine flank results in entire squad being cut off and wiped out with no revivals.

    Command centralisation in beno case isn't that bad. Queen has less benos on her side to command, she can set leaders and give them the duty to command frontlines. Queen has easier time commanding whole hive than entire marine command over only one squad.
    If you fear pressure on Queen, then imagine being CO that could actually be mutined against if he made bad orders. CO will be judged for what squad he choosed to do what, for what LZ he picked, for OBs, for how he handles prisoners etc.
    Everything is centered around Queen because its dev policy for Queen to be something of a "Boss" of the CM game. Marines have nothing to do with it.

    It depends on what single marine killed you. It might just happen that you jugde entire marine force on few robustos like Avalanche and entire beno force on baldos. It might be a problem of your time zone, that you have time to play when robust marines come in and robust benos go out. It might just be your "luck".
    Competent runner can juggle entire squad into FFing each other and then escaping barerly scratched and the only thing that can stop such robust runner is either lucky marine with buckshot, lucky marine with slug, or robust marine with buckshot and nothing else. Now imagine going against two of those runners.

    "Like just from my experience you can be a derpy marine, grab shotguns and lots of explosives and get sick kills without that much of a learning curve. You need to be pretty competent as a xeno to be remotely useful."

    Getting kills in CM isn't even half of the success. Good marine isn't the one who gets the most of kills, good marine is the one who created opportunities for others to do their job. I accepted that fact and my playstyle reflect such philosophy. I load my shotgun and belt with sluggs so that others can shoot stunned benos and avoid slashes from T1s and few T2s, I wear Heavy Armor to sometimes take that slash, or two more than medium/light armor marine would take, so that robust and competent marines have that second more to shoot at benos in safety. I take the risk of slugs, I hit marines on occasion and you know what pains more than information on beno chat that you died? Thought that my slug stunned some perfectly healthy light-armor marine who then got dragged off into the hive and killed and that nobody will ever revive him, thus making me a destroyer of his entire round. Do benos have to take into consideration that their neuro might stun/slow down other beno? That their gas might harm other beno? That their pounce might harm other beno? That their slash might hurt other beno? That their grenade might hurt other beno?
    On top of that, you are just as likely (when grabbing buckshot shotgun and explosives) to fuck over marines with nades and PB you mates. Every coin has two sides.

    Quote Originally Posted by HoseaPalindrome View Post
    Now you're just being disingenuous or you really haven't played xenos recently. OB's are mostly NOT used like you say at all, but are used to completely annihilate hives or anything remotely nearby them. Or to fuck up chokepoints before marines rush in. Or be fired randomly anywhere where more than 2 xenos were spotted that's near the front lines. It's seriously not that hard to die to an OB that shaming people as "bald" because of it is like me saying someone's bald for dying to Hedghehog Rav's. Oh you died to one of the most powerful tools the marines have? Fuckin'...noob...loser. Git good. Like i refuse to believe you even believe what you wrote.

    And yea yada yada "I like my wins hard earned" but honestly this isn't a fighting game. You need to work together with other people in this game, which means no matter how godlike of a xeno you are, you'll never win if your team gets robusted by a good nade'
    Since when "OB is mainly meant to break strong beno defensive positions" means "OB is mainly used to break strong beno defensive position"? Thanks to sound bug it can be more effective at killing benos currently, but its not meant to do that. With proper sound indication (or following MasterShakeEz idea, a visual indication) then only the baldest, or laggiest, or really unluckiest benos would die to OB/Mortar.
    I belive thats is the design policy, the same with nades. There is a reason why marines scream "NADE OUT" and why nades flashes bright red and why they don't explode immediately and why instantly remote detonating charges were removed. Nothing forces anyone to die with no choice to do anything else. Be it marine, or beno.

    "And yea yada yada "I like my wins hard earned" but honestly this isn't a fighting game. You need to work together with other people in this game, which means no matter how godlike of a xeno you are, you'll never win if your team gets robusted by a good nade'"

    Funny you mention that. The most commonly argument used by hard on Xeno Mains when winrate was designed and enforced to be in favour for xenos 3/4.
    The same with marines, pal. The same with marines. No matter how godlike of a marine you are, you'll never win if your team gets robusted by a bad nade.
    Last edited by CABAL; 06-02-2020 at 02:21 PM.
    REDEMPTION

  2. #22
    Junior Member Ninshu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    Skill level for benos was only recently brought up with MOBA update that might not be fine tuned to this day. Pre-Moba benos were definatelly requiring less skill than marine to get kills. "Lucky" kills are just that... They are "luckey", as marine you are forced to be around other marines, so its easier to get a lucky kill. Hang around T3s, or even T2s more (competent players I want to add, they usually use the same beno names like RAT, or something like that) and you will get your luckey kills as beno. You seem to be also "luckey" enough to be never ambushed, as current lurker can pounce from like 5 tile away from you (at the edge of armor lamp light), break bone, or two in few slashes and then escape. Competent runners can drive-by slash effectively. Shit happens and we all die to nades/SADAR/OB/mortar, even as marines. A good flank by benos vs good flank by marines is different in few details. Good marine flank is very hard to organise, marines don't have eyes lied on most of the map, marines don't see trough walls, marines can't really avoid detection etc. Bad beno flank results in beno retreating and maybe few losses, bad marine flank results in entire squad being cut off and wiped out with no revivals.

    Command centralisation in beno case isn't that bad. Queen has less benos on her side to command, she can set leaders and give them the duty to command frontlines. Queen has easier time commanding whole hive than entire marine command over only one squad.
    If you fear pressure on Queen, then imagine being CO that could actually be mutined against if he made bad orders. CO will be judged for what squad he choosed to do what, for what LZ he picked, for OBs, for how he handles prisoners etc.
    Everything is centered around Queen because its dev policy for Queen to be something of a "Boss" of the CM game. Marines have nothing to do with it.

    It depends on what single marine killed you. It might just happen that you jugde entire marine force on few robustos like Avalanche and entire beno force on baldos. It might be a problem of your time zone, that you have time to play when robust marines come in and robust benos go out. It might just be your "luck".
    Competent runner can juggle entire squad into FFing each other and then escaping barerly scratched and the only thing that can stop such robust runner is either lucky marine with buckshot, lucky marine with slug, or robust marine with buckshot and nothing else. Now imagine going against two of those runners.

    "Like just from my experience you can be a derpy marine, grab shotguns and lots of explosives and get sick kills without that much of a learning curve. You need to be pretty competent as a xeno to be remotely useful."

    Getting kills in CM isn't even half of the success. Good marine isn't the one who gets the most of kills, good marine is the one who created opportunities for others to do their job. I accepted that fact and my playstyle reflect such philosophy. I load my shotgun and belt with sluggs so that others can shoot stunned benos and avoid slashes from T1s and few T2s, I wear Heavy Armor to sometimes take that slash, or two more than medium/light armor marine would take, so that robust and competent marines have that second more to shoot at benos in safety. I take the risk of slugs, I hit marines on occasion and you know what pains more than information on beno chat that you died? Thought that my slug stunned some perfectly healthy light-armor marine who then got dragged off into the hive and killed and that nobody will ever revive him, thus making me a destroyer of his entire round. Do benos have to take into consideration that their neuro might stun/slow down other beno? That their gas might harm other beno? That their pounce might harm other beno? That their slash might hurt other beno? That their grenade might hurt other beno?
    On top of that, you are just as likely (when grabbing buckshot shotgun and explosives) to fuck over marines with nades and PB you mates. Every coin has two sides.



    Since when "OB is mainly meant to break strong beno defensive positions" means "OB is mainly used to break strong beno defensive position"? Thanks to sound bug it can be more effective at killing benos currently, but its not meant to do that. With proper sound indication (or following MasterShakeEz idea, a visual indication) then only the baldest, or laggiest, or really unluckiest benos would die to OB/Mortar.
    I belive thats is the design policy, the same with nades. There is a reason why marines scream "NADE OUT" and why nades flashes bright red and why they don't explode immediately and why instantly remote detonating charges were removed. Nothing forces anyone to die with no choice to do anything else. Be it marine, or beno.

    "And yea yada yada "I like my wins hard earned" but honestly this isn't a fighting game. You need to work together with other people in this game, which means no matter how godlike of a xeno you are, you'll never win if your team gets robusted by a good nade'"

    Funny you mention that. The most commonly argument used by hard on Xeno Mains when winrate was designed and enforced to be in favour for xenos 3/4.
    The same with marines, pal. The same with marines. No matter how godlike of a marine you are, you'll never win if your team gets robusted by a bad nade.
    I'd take incompetent marines over incompetent benos. We cant afford to have benos who only purpose is to body block and overextend. Also I feel the game should be more lucrative on endings. Instead of xenos push marines back and marines SD space shuttle. After rounds of more our less the same ending it gets kinda boring.
    Last edited by Ninshu; 06-02-2020 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninshu View Post
    I'd take incompetent marines over incompetent benos. We cant afford to have benos who only purpose is to body block and overextend. Also I feel the game should be more lucrative on endings. Instead of xenos push marines back and marines SD space shuttle. After rounds of more our less the same ending it gets kinda boring.
    Incompetend beno dies and maybe bodyblocks you that might result in your death in certain scenarios where marines are blasting at you. Incompetent marine might blast half of the squad with nade, can PB you and break your heart (which means you won't be revived), can slug you and thus letting xenos capture you, he can burn you to the point of +600 burn damage after burn advanced kits that requires few medics working together to ever revive, he can just wound you enough to give you IB, or broken bone, thus either forcing you to spend 10+ minutes on going back to Almayer to get surgery, or be generally less combat capable.

    Yes, the game gets kinda boring, no matter who wins more. Multiple suggestions to add self-run HvH were given, but nothing in that direction was made.
    Both sides feel they have it bad, which might mean that both sides have it fair.
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  4. #24
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    Are you two still arguing?
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  5. #25
    Junior Member HoseaPalindrome's Avatar
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    Actually after playing some more today, I think the "problem" is there's just less players to work with as Xeno, so even if only one or two are bald, it hurts xenos a lot more than it does marines. ESPECIALLY if they're higher tiers. It's also why coordinating is easier for Xenos though.

    I like your take on what makes a good marine though. I think it's a little hard to deduce that stuff sometimes.

  6. #26
    Junior Member derpymcderpderp's Avatar
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    bro you said 'sister' outside of the hivemind and even using it in hivemind is fucking cringe as fuck sorry can't take you seriously please get better at xeno and be good like me =]
    thank u admins )

  7. #27
    Senior Member DekoToast's Avatar
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    Xenos happy
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  8. #28
    Whitelisted Captain Fortelian's Avatar
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    The last 3 times I play queen I xeno major'd. Git gud. Nah, balance is a wacky thing though, it's never gonna be perfect.
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  9. #29
    Member LynuahSororitas's Avatar
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    Yeah, Fortelian is right, it is impossible to balance an asymmetric game like CM, some patches marines will be stronger, some patches xenos will be stronger but the truth nobody wants to admit is that the best side wins, no matter what, the community prefers to blame the balance instead of realising their mistakes and improve in the game, Fortelian himself and Blackburn are great players both in marine side or as Xenos (They are respected in both sides, maybe because they know the weakness of each side and how to capitalise?) and a lot of marines fear them when they are playing Queen. ACE, SHP and other many players managed to acquire more than 20 marine kills per round that way carrying the game.

    As marine, no matter how good you are, you aren’t able to carry a game or shit like that, marines sabotage themselves more than anything else, and no, Orbital Strikes aren’t OP, you need DEFCON for them besides the 2 starting ones, they have a considerable delay to arrive in the planet and to reload, it is pretty obvious when a OB will fall as well, Marines need to laze and put themselves in risk to get a good coordinate in the field just to have them outdated by the moment Command dials the cannon. 70% of CM rounds OBs aren’t even used, if they are used, they generally blow more marines than xenos or don’t hit nothing at all.

    For a marine to acquire a kill, the marine needs to be above average and put himself at high risk as well resulting in some kind of ''live fast, die fast'', unless you throw yourself in 20 marines you won’t die, if you are in a 1v1 against a marine and lose it, the chances of you being bad are high.

    Besides many other points that I won’t lose my time writing, the solution is, git gud, improve your skill cap and stop to think the balance has anything to do with the win rate, you can, you are able to, and you should carry a round as a Xeno, do not expect your team to do all the work and play like someone with bystander syndrome, this point was already proven many times.

    The sad truth is, Xeno players are bad in majority. Xenos have no limits unlike marines, you can pull out incredible plays and fuck an entire squad. Learn the game, improve, if you don’t want to, go play anything else, there is a lot of good games around.

    There is no more point discussing that. Period.
    Last edited by LynuahSororitas; 06-22-2020 at 05:40 AM.
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  10. #30
    Junior Member derpymcderpderp's Avatar
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    by the way literally just walk away
    thank u admins )

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