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Thread: Staff Report - x31stOverlord

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    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Staff Report - x31stOverlord

    Staff Report
    Your BYOND Key
    Drevenshekel
    Date of Incident
    June 2, 2020
    Your Character Name?
    Wamakahana Windhealer
    Their BYOND Key
    x31stOverlord
    Approximate time and date of the incident
    ~10am in your central US time
    Which Staff Protocols (https://cm-ss13.com/forums/showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken
    Enforcement of the rules
    Description of the incident
    Overlord job banned me from CL for "LRP and self antagging". This was after several rounds of me running a store out of my office, where I admit I did "self antag" to an extent by stealing items. However I did tone it down and by the 5th or so round of shop RP I was asking permission from captains to take desks/carpet, and had marines acquring items for me planetside to sell.

    As for the round I got banned from, I basically started a shipside micronation called Windgonia. This was NOT self declared, rather it was agreed upon by the captain, who signed a piece of paper for it. I then had marine players volunteer to join Windgonia, where they would get WY comms and gather things planetside with the intention to then sell them to marines. Mostly this involved booze machines, colonist guns and whatever other unique items we could acquire. Also the MP's were not to enter the borders of "windgonia" unless a major crime had been committed, as per ML as major crimes cannot be ignored. So it was roleplayed out, and all the players involved, including the MP's, had fun with it. It did NOT negatively effect the marine play what so ever, which is where my gripe with it being called "self antag" is.

    The situation was even handled IC when forest spawned in an admiralty board to come and deal with our little micronation, they ordered my marines all deploy which I complied with and my store was raided for contraband. Which I thought was a cool use of the HC and a great way to resolve the round in a RP manner.

    I believe overlord has a bias against my character windhealer itself, especially windhealer being a CL as is evidenced by the dm he sent me in game, and I do not believe I was being "LRP" at all. I was playing my character the way I have always played my character, interacting with other characters to create a fun story. Being a beaurcratic businessman in a future of megacorporations I could totally see WY trying some slimy stuff like making ancap-esque corporate microstates, and I put in the effort to RP it out with citizenship forms, a treaty signed by the captain and we even were going to hold elections for a vice president.

    If its self antag and "LRP" to create a fun situation aboard the ship, that only added to the round as a positive experience for everyone involved, and didn't hurt the round at all then I guess thats the state of CM in 2020. I dont have anything aginst overlord, but I believe he has overstepped the boundaries on this particular case and has made a gross miscalculation of both what LRP and self antagging is.

    Also I got banned for sending a fax saying "space chiefs mad" at the end of the round, Im not appealing that at all and I understand that it was probably too smartass and I accept my 3 hour ban for it, although it was just a joke and in the same vein as marines saying "xenos mad" announcments at the end of a round too.
    EvidenceHow you would punish the accused
    I dont really want anyone punished but an apology would be nice?

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    Head Ukraine
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    Keep stuff civil. Memeposts will be deleted, memers will be violated

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    Synthetic Council Member 50RemAndCounting's Avatar
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    Notes for Drevenshekel:

    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Synthetic Council member, Discord 50RemAndCounting#8782 contact for synthetic-related inquiries.

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    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Also as I know it will be brought up, to talk a little more about the several rounds of me doing my shipside shop. While I can understand how greytiding the ship for tables and carpet and items to sell is self antagging, it is pretty light and I was toning it down by asking permission to take tables and having marines bring me stuff. Infact on the 5th or so round of me doing my shop I had 5 people working on it, a marine chef, a bartender, OT's and myself all roleplaying together to run a shipside bar/pawn store, we had dozens of players come through the store to interact with us, buy items and drink, even holding a ritual funeral for one of my employees after they died. Heres a screenshot of that if anyone was interested in looking, even the RO was in on it and smuggling black market weapon crates to our store. It created a way more interesting shipside round, which is usually pretty boring and the same each time, the MP's loved having an actual threat to deal with, as I had a network of players gathering items, smuggling in guns and such to sell and generally doing my thing as a sleazy corporate guy. I've even had several players DM me telling me how much they loved these rounds, and the feedback I got was generally positive, while the negative feedback I got I took in and used to improve upon my RP each round. I toned down the greytiding when it was brought up to me, and me doing a "micronation" was an idea given to me and I thought itd be fun to try, as it didnt involve me having to take things to sell and actually involved some legal documentation.

    https://i.gyazo.com/thumb/1200/b8c54...f87c8f-png.jpg

    Yes I also did 2 mutinies against Anderson as CO during those rounds, both of which were sanctioned and roleplayed out, and so I do not see them as me "self antagging" but rather me reacting to the round IC, I even went out of my way to makesure the captain was taken to medbay and revived during the mutiny, something that most mutineers dont care about.
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  5. #5
    Retired Manager x31stOverlord's Avatar
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    Alright:

    I hold no bias against any players, I believe my extensive time on staff has proven this time and again with my extremely fair and sometimes too lenient treatment of players, especially those who have long terms on the server and those that I know are not malicious in their intentions. Sue me, I'm not an asshole. Whilst I do not personally agree with/care for your RP "Gimmick" as some sort of tribal chieftain from pre-civilization days, I have not banned you previously for this even though I have been in this position for months, have had ample opportunity to do so and the capacity to do so. This is because I have no bias for you, mostly I ignore your antics when they do not disrupt or get in the way of operations, go too far down the line. So your claims of bias are unfounded and incorrect.

    My issue and decision to job ban you from Corporate Liaison was your self proclaimed "Ship State" which I decided was too far, yes you may have had the CO's permission to do so, however, you did not get permission from staff at the time, nor did you bother to send a fax to your employers at Weston-Yamada to ensure that the Company that your Character is legally employed by is happy for you to declare a nation state. The issue here that I see and that many people will be divided upon, is the line between what is "Acceptable" and "Unacceptable" for the servers RP standards, in my opinion, the fact that someone would declare themselves an independent nation aboard a military vessel would be ignored at best or declared mentally insane/unstable at worst, please feel to argue this if you believe that it would be realistic in our setting for this to occur and with a reasonable explanation.

    Forest handled the situation in-game as they believed that the situation was easily able to slip out of control and order and had told me about the goings on in the round through discord PM, however, because I was not in a position to immediately log into the server, Forest decided to try to contain the situation as to ensure it was not going to spiral out of control and left the "OOC" aspect of the situation to me, which I immediately tried to get onto, however, as the RP of this situation was ongoing I allowed you to continue and shepherded to situation to a conclusion just before the round ended, after one of your "Citizens" tried to gather enough men to mutiny and I informed them that I would not authorize the mutiny even if they did. After the RP involving the situation ended, I messaged you, stating that you would be receiving a Job-ban from Corporate Liaison, you responded and instead of trying to focus on a conversation I was trying to have with you, were trying to rile up OOC by posting that you were getting Job-Banned.

    After handling your PMs and issuing the Job-Ban, I was going to leave it at that, however, you decided that the best course of action would be to send a fax stating "Space chiefs mad", which, given the context of the situation was not simply a meme ooc message typically sprouted at end of round such as "Xenos Mad" etc. but a direct and deliberate message to me, I decided that the behavior and willful "middle finger" of the fax warranted a three hour ban as I was nothing but civil with you the entire exchange. I am more than open to conversation and am willing to be lenient to those who exchange in civil debate with logic and reason, your behavior led to the Job-ban and subsequent three hour ban, not mine.

    As such, I have said what needs to be said about this situation, should Jamie/Grimcad require any further information from me that needs posting here I shall do so and I am sure logs of the entire round will be collected at some point by one of the staff team.

    Edit: Slight oopsie in word of phrase.
    Last edited by x31stOverlord; 06-01-2020 at 03:58 PM.
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    Senior Member ladwhy's Avatar
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    I have played as Bravo Spec that round and I decided to go to the CL office with my cloak on to see what's up. I went and saw like 3 guys and Dreven saying they're gonna make a mini-nation named Windgonia. Fun, we all signed a paper that we are now citizens of that state and we all got our first orders. I was actually enjoyable going around the colony and finding unique items to bring him. Anyways, from what I've heard, there was like one marine standing shipside to get the good and bring it to the office, but I think everyone enjoyed what they did, as no one complained on comms or in the office.

    A jobban for making the round unique ain't really that fair. That's just my opinion tho. Anyways, Dreven didn't self-antag in any serious way, that round was a marine major with no difficulties.
    Ray 'Soap' Sandys - Marine MAIN

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    Whitelisted Captain Memesky's Avatar
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    Alright, since this jobban happened as a result of multiple rounds which I just happened to be a part of I will try to explain as much as I can and give my opinion on the whole situation.

    It is clear that Windhealer wanted to do something new with this shop idea, it was pretty unique but got borderline round disturbing sometimes, true. He has done two mutinies against me, one for killing a monkey I believe and one for trying to BE him. Both caused no issue and made the game just more fun as we won both rounds in which I got mutinied. I also lost both mutinies, but this doesn't matter as once again, we won like 5 minutes after the mutiny was over.

    Fast forward to another round I figured I shouldn't bother trying to stop his shop so I made a deal with him instead as CO. He was allowed to have a shop if he was to give USCM 20% of his profits. It just happened he declared his shop a state after this deal. So I guess this event sparked this indirectly. The round itself was like 30 minutes as we speedran the round on Prison.

    And now I will talk about the current round aka the round that is being reported. The round before the current round Bill Sutton was also captain and they made the same deal, although round again ended too quickly. As for the current round the Captain was once again Bill Sutton and Windhealer was doing the state thing again. I decided to ask for lobby and joined as a PFC and got citizenship in his state. I was mostly hanging around his office while others were collecting stuff from the planet, as in not steal, they collected it all legally. The captain has signed the "Treaty of Windgonia" and as such the MPs were not allowed to enter the office and were to ignore our minor crimes. Later on the Sky Marshall was sent and has disbanded the state, this was pretty outrageous in my opinion as it was just harmless RP, I tried to form up a mutiny with other "Citizens" but it was shut down OOCly. Anyways there was no fighting, no stealing and really no antagonizing anyone.

    I do not see how can this possibly be self-antagging. LRP I can but even that is questionable. And yes I am aware the self-antag/LRP ban were for events over several rounds, not just this one.
    Captain Connor Anderson - Leaving you in CIC alone

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    Mod Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    This is not the place for opinions, you should only be posting as a witness if you have evidence that proves if the allegation happened or did not happen.

    I was there, this is what the CL did or did not do is fine
    Head Shitposter in Charge and Current Mod Manager
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    Senior Moderator & Synthetic Council Member superjo98's Avatar
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    Let me know if I missed anything
    Logs of the round the ban took place
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Admiral spawning in to disband Windgonia
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Logs of the CL's Office being raided for contraband
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    PMs between overlord and Dreven
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by superjo98; 06-02-2020 at 01:48 AM.
    I play as Dawson Hook and Brad.

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    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by x31stOverlord View Post
    Alright:

    I hold no bias against any players, I believe my extensive time on staff has proven this time and again with my extremely fair and sometimes too lenient treatment of players, especially those who have long terms on the server and those that I know are not malicious in their intentions. Sue me, I'm not an asshole. Whilst I do not personally agree with/care for your RP "Gimmick" as some sort of tribal chieftain from pre-civilization days, I have not banned you previously for this even though I have been in this position for months, have had ample opportunity to do so and the capacity to do so. This is because I have no bias for you, mostly I ignore your antics when they do not disrupt or get in the way of operations, go too far down the line. So your claims of bias are unfounded and incorrect.

    My issue and decision to job ban you from Corporate Liaison was your self proclaimed "Ship State" which I decided was too far, yes you may have had the CO's permission to do so, however, you did not get permission from staff at the time, nor did you bother to send a fax to your employers at Weston-Yamada to ensure that the Company that your Character is legally employed by is happy for you to declare a nation state. The issue here that I see and that many people will be divided upon, is the line between what is "Acceptable" and "Unacceptable" for the servers RP standards, in my opinion, the fact that someone would declare themselves an independent nation aboard a military vessel would be ignored at best or declared mentally insane/unstable at worst, please feel to argue this if you believe that it would be realistic in our setting for this to occur and with a reasonable explanation.

    Forest handled the situation in-game as they believed that the situation was easily able to slip out of control and order and had told me about the goings on in the round through discord PM, however, because I was not in a position to immediately log into the server, Forest decided to try to contain the situation as to ensure it was not going to spiral out of control and left the "OOC" aspect of the situation to me, which I immediately tried to get onto, however, as the RP of this situation was ongoing I allowed you to continue and shepherded to situation to a conclusion just before the round ended, after one of your "Citizens" tried to gather enough men to mutiny and I informed them that I would not authorize the mutiny even if they did. After the RP involving the situation ended, I messaged you, stating that you would be receiving a Job-ban from Corporate Liaison, you responded and instead of trying to focus on a conversation I was trying to have with you, were trying to rile up OOC by posting that you were getting Job-Banned.

    After handling your PMs and issuing the Job-Ban, I was going to leave it at that, however, you decided that the best course of action would be to send a fax stating "Space chiefs mad", which, given the context of the situation was not simply a meme ooc message typically sprouted at end of round such as "Xenos Mad" etc. but a direct and deliberate message to me, I decided that the behavior and willful "middle finger" of the fax warranted a three hour ban as I was nothing but civil with you the entire exchange. I am more than open to conversation and am willing to be lenient to those who exchange in civil debate with logic and reason, your behavior led to the Job-ban and subsequent three hour ban, not mine.

    As such, I have said what needs to be said about this situation, should Jamie/Grimcad require any further information from me that needs posting here I shall do so and I am sure logs of the entire round will be collected at some point by one of the staff team.

    Edit: Slight oopsie in word of phrase.
    Okay well the reason I don't send faxes is you either never get a reply to them, or you get one that is just saying "no don't do that", or rarely you'll get something given to you (like a round a few days ago where I got items spawned for my shop), you've even admitted yourself that you don't bother replying to me because you don't like my character aesthetic so you can see from my side why I wouldn't bother (this was not news to me). I enjoy interacting and RPing with other players, and having adventures with them, not writing letters to some invisible staff member who doesen't even care. In hindsight I probably should have written a fax informing the company, but my reasoning is that it woulden't really add anything to the round anyway and by the time it got started I simply didn't have time as I was so invested in the fun of the round

    You have failed to explain at all how I was self antagging in the round you banned me for, the captain, CMP and players involved would all agree that my actions did not negatively effect the round for marines, nor did it really cause any disruption. At worst it caused the MP's to have something to talk about and watch over, which in my opinion is a good thing as MP's usually have extremely boring roles to play with little to no action going on. LRP is subjective and as I have brought up before, their is literally no objective standards to RP on this server, its all up to the whims of the mods that are on. t I did this micronation gimmick the round before, and no one batted an eye. RP is players interacting in character to tell emergent stories within the setting of the game, which is exactly what I did as a sneaky corporate fella in a wacky retro sci fi setting where corporations wield the power of governments. So in my opinion the LRP aspsect of the ban is very questionable, as I was roleplaying my character, made use of legistation to legalize my state, didn't do anything over the top with it to disrupt the round, and the "self antag" aspect of the ban just simply did not exist, I would press you to find any players in that round who believed what I was doing was antagonistic to them.

    I feel you have factored in the "attempted mutiny" by one of my citizens into the self antag, which is something I had NOTHING to do with, I believe I was at CIC at the time, and when I returned to my office I completely complied with HC and the CO to defuse the situation. I then tried to hide some of the contraband in a safe before getting searched, as makes sense for my character to do so, all of which were guns taken planetside, with the exception of the CO rifle, which was brought to me by a survivor (IC I had no reason to not take it, and bill wasn't deploying anyway nor did the xenos have any chance at getting to the ship so I did not see this as being antagonistic, and I knew the MP's would crack the safe anyway). Because other than this "planned mutiny" which never even came close to fruition, I can see nothing that occured that was self antagging.

    As for the "space chiefs mad" fax, upon reflection and after having a sleep it was a poor taste joke at your expense which I apologise for, but it had nothing to do with the job ban that I am appealing and it was made because I felt I had been treated unfairly and was angry. This was the only point at which I had broken character, which was silly of me. As for me "garnering support in OOC" I am allowed to talk in OOC am I not? I was informing people that I was being banned as is my right, and their wasn't really anything further to discuss with you as you had clearly made up your mind. I'm not sure why you expected me to just sit there and talk to you in DM's when you had already declared I was being job banned.
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