Wamakahana Windhealer Should not have been CL banned - Killing Server Fun

[CABAL]

CM wasn't the only Combat server at the time.
WW2 Server, 1986 Soviet/UN War Server, Zombie Server and Russian CM Server where all active.

The difference between CM and the others is that we had a specific plan which we achieved over the years. The player-base steadily increased due to efficient development, policies and moderation of the server. I don't think people give the moderation team enough credit (especially years ago) when dealing with a player-base that all have lethal weapons at round start. We provided people with a steady influx of stability, development and policies to maintain a healthy server that is still going.

We can disagree on policy and procedures Cabal but for you to completely neglect my role and the previous Administrations role in making CM the top server is pretty ignorant.

They were either before, or fairly after I came to CM, so thats my opinion. Russian server is out of question since it was... Russian. Can't do shit when everything is written in bunch of ants.
I still think that inherit high-pop and alien setting is what keeps CM alive and relevant. I wasn't around during your era, so I have no idea what you did. I do know you were pushing that bullshit 75-25 winrate bias alongside Apop and alt drama which in my opinion (again) is a bit more malicious than short-term rage over being outrobusted via messing with marine IFF, or inci mags spawn spree.

At certain point it became a "snowball effect" where fairly high pop and being on the top in BYOND hub just increased the pop even more and when somebody left, he was quickly replaced with new players. How much of the marines from "your" years are left playing CM more than like two rounds a week?

Not even mentioning YT promotion is also pretty ignorant. Sseth is your alt too?

Corp Mercs is a Deathmatch server.
It's No-RP and offers nothing beyond memes, jokes and shooting stuff. Which is fine and theres nothing wrong with that, but to say CM will be desolate because a server offering alternative gun-play is coming out soon is pretty shallow and incorrect.

And CM is HRP server where no LRP events are ever run, right? The biggest difference is that we have 25 minutes of brieffing. Time will tell and right now I only see it this way. Ungas who are here to unga will unga there. Ultimately it will achieve what some people suggested of splitting CM into two servers.
I'm still amazed how anyone plays SS13 for its super mechanics that aren't janky at all with superior 2D 7 tiles view range. Apparently such people exist and they most likely don't care about the RP.
What CM offers besides shooting? LRP events and notes/bans on player-driven RP, stretched and pretzeled definitions on self-antagging? Cat rights bigger than AIs, barebone lore that only recently got addition of RESS. Council of Beetroot aka Lore Keepers never agreeing on what is cannon and what is not. Awfull tank that was removed and brought back because its nice buzzword for newcomers, who have no idea how awfully it really is for both marines and benos.

I also find this funny, since I've rarely been around the last couple of years and yet there's been a few scandals as well. To name a couple, Spookydonut intentionally changing variables on marines he didn't like so they'd trigger landmines, Emerald_Blood mass something spawning shit for herself and a couple of Managers/Staff leaving due to Drama. This doesn't even include the staff reports you can go through and read about staff "A-Bombing during events".

Its something different to fuck with certain player out of emotions during one round, or to spawn yourself some shit. This things are pretty short and can be partialy explained with human nature. Nobody is perfect. However it takes something "evil" to clone yourself and use those clones to gruadually destabilise and deceive trough months, or years.

I'm all for discussing things with you Cabal (and anyone), but I've noticed an obvious trend with you on the forums/discord.
In a way to "win arguments/discussion", you often intentionally neglect or ignore events/things that don't fit your agenda or what you're pushing. It makes replying to you or even acknowledging you difficult as I know you're bias and will often overlook things that don't fit your agenda.

I guess that after all, we are all humans. With our own biases. We can only hope that other people have atleast truly good intentions and don't run some schemes. I have no skeletons in the closet and I say it proudly. Rest assured that I want best for CM, my vision might be wrong, might be incorrect, might need fine-tunning, but is true to my heart. Can you say the same without any second thought?

How much you not ignored explenation to your new definition of self-antagging? I guess that doesn't fit somebody agenda.

I'm drawing a line by giving my perspective of how Staff differentiate between the playerbase. There is a reason why direct devs/mods on large games do not interactive with community beyond dev blogs and updates, because it creates a conflict of interest and incites harassment from the players against them. Large games often have a PR Manager/Community Leader who handles the playerbase, but seldom do you see any game offer the level of communication and direct access to a team. The amount of staff who get burned out and sick of hearing players whine, grovel, complain, insult, and potentially dox them is insane.

Oh, I guess CM is now AAA title? All those proud and big companies like EA, being deaf to community brought them a lot of moolah and praise, right? And to this day they don't listen to community, right? Recent C&C remasters? Quick cash-grab intended to milk fans, no listening of fans were involved.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I strongly believe the playerbase doesn't understand whats best for CM, primarily due to their lack of investment beyond "playing" and the lack of insight they have within the staff team.
So to reiterate, I do believe that the best people to make decisions for the betterment of any server are the Head Staff and not the player base who in large are a reactive hive-mind with little far-sight.

How people, who want to invest into CM but are rejected, can invest in CM at all? I would gladly write some lore for CM, as well as many other people. I would gladly support it financialy. I would probably even be willing to make some sprites. Either become admeme/devmeme, or be "investment-shamed"?
I do not belive that someone who barerly, or never plays can make good decisions for the betterment of any server, let alone the "best".

We can all learn from eachother. I might be on one biased extreme, but you aren't all-knowing god who is always right by being on the other just as biased extreme.

[TheIlluminated1]

Explain why the playerbase grew during Feweh and Apop times then? They were way more oppressive than this staff has ever been. This staff and dev team literally listens to who whines the most when making decisions. Most people are satisfied with the game all the ones bitching and moaning ARE whiners. You dont represent the playerbase you are a minority.

Mate, more than half the folks that are in charge I know and I've personally worked with when I was a moderator. They may be more receptive to feedback now, but they're not pushovers.

If you wanna mention Apop and Feweh about this, then have you noticed how the game used to peak around 150 folks during late sulaco/early Almayer phases? We had a few 300 player rounds, during the Almayer test, but those were outliers. The game's grown a much bigger community now, and I think that this openness that staff are trying to do now is extremely healthy for the game, and for the respect we have for them.

I still disagree that development choices are made based on whining. Feedback, yes, but not brainless complaints and arguments.

Also, I'm not here to represent the playerbase, I'm giving my opinion on what I think was a bad call by staff.

[HoseaPalindrome]

I'm drawing a line by giving my perspective of how Staff differentiate between the playerbase. There is a reason why direct devs/mods on large games do not interactive with community beyond dev blogs and updates, because it creates a conflict of interest and incites harassment from the players against them. Large games often have a PR Manager/Community Leader who handles the playerbase, but seldom do you see any game offer the level of communication and direct access to a team. The amount of staff who get burned out and sick of hearing players whine, grovel, complain, insult, and potentially dox them is insane.

I'm not trying to be a dick, but I strongly believe the playerbase doesn't understand whats best for CM, primarily due to their lack of investment beyond "playing" and the lack of insight they have within the staff team.
So to reiterate, I do believe that the best people to make decisions for the betterment of any server are the Head Staff and not the player base who in large are a reactive hive-mind with little far-sight.

I guess that's one way to look at it. But I think triple A devs do that because they can afford to do it, and playerbases can voice most of their balance concerns over, like, reddit. This is a game that enforces roleplaying, which no triple A game I can think of, even MMO's need. Roleplaying itself inherently requires moderation, which (one would hope) requires discussion (because everyone has fun roleplaying differently). I think a forum community is a wonderful thing. I always really liked forums and tried to be active on any ss13 forum from a server i tried being on, and this is probably the longest i've stuck with a server since I left Aurora in 2015. But I probably wouldn't pick it out of other servers if it didn't have a forum. So why did I stick with CM despite being an HRP unrobust loser? Just like CABAL said, the atmosphere and the fantastic storytelling potential the game has. Even if you're in delta, getting that feeling of dread as your squad is slowly getting wiped one man at a time, and the xenos have come up behind your attempted push, wuuf, what a rush. One entirely lost on me if I just cared about getting my K/D ratio up and thought of everyone as players, rather than characters that also care about their life. I agree with him a lot with not understanding what an unga makes

But this kinda stuff really makes me think roleplaying's dying out on CM. And I wonder how many people left over this kinda stuff before. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that Dreven's ban is staying. But I think it doesn't even matter if he gets unbanned. It's pretty obvious that he'll never try something fun again out of fear of 16 pages of heavy discussion on the meaning of roleplay. I mean I sure as hell wouldn't. Hell getting him unbanned would be winning the fight, but not the war, because it's just a matter of time before someone else gets pinched for perceived LRP (it would be a good step in the right direction, don't get me wrong, but still...)

Also I get it, people generally don't know what they want until they get it. Things like that. But after almost 20 pages of this crap, of people discussing and sharing experiences and trying to communicate ideas, you're calling the people here uninvested and "a reactive hive-mind with little far-sight". My dude, MY GUY, BRO.


Soldier said he wants to make everyone happy, which is commendable, and a job I don't envy. People sure as hell aren't trying to make him happy. But imo the ungas don't care, the people that use him as an example of LRP are just gonna replace Windhealer with some other scapegoat to justify their own LRP (and if they honestly held that belief I don't get why they wouldn't argue so in their own appeals, or this thread, or a new thread, or anywhere.) and the only people that this really affects are people used to roleplaying and one staff member who kinda comes off as hating Windhealers entire gimmick. I think it's great that someone from staff is listening and providing input here, and the real victory in my eyes would be changing his opinion on this. But I doubt that's happening. I'm too smoothbrain to know a real fix either, probably pooling the community or making clearer RP standards or whatever else people said throughout the thread. I think in the pursuit of trying to make everyone happy, I think accidentally no one is happy. I guess the mod that jobbaned him is happy and Fewherh MOST people are unhappy. Especially the roleplayers

[spookydonut]

Report has been sitting idle for 9 days now, if soldier's plan was to take a few weeks off so he didn't have to deal with it, times almost up :P

[BIgboyyo]

Report has been sitting idle for 9 days now, if soldier's plan was to take a few weeks off so he didn't have to deal with it, times almost up :P

I think since its a mod manager being reported Grim has to deal with it

[ChainsawMullet]

I think since its a mod manager being reported Grim has to deal with it

Yes, Grim has to deal with it. He was already working on getting people to pull logs and stuff on the day it got posted.

[Fewher]

If you wanna mention Apop and Feweh about this, then have you noticed how the game used to peak around 150 folks during late sulaco/early Almayer phases? We had a few 300 player rounds, during the Almayer test, but those were outliers.

This is a decisively false statement.

For context I joined the staff team when the player-base was pushing 45-60 players during peak hours and by the time I reached Manager it was holding strong at 60 players.
When we released the first "major" CM Modernization (Abby Era 2015-2016? New Ship + Map) we were peaking at 75-100 players.
When I was removed in 2017 we were peaking between 150-200 players.
For CM to be at 300 players at peak in 2020 is inline with previous growth rates.

In-fact almost the entirety of SS13 has seen a steady increase in players over the years.

I'm not trying to diminish the current Administrations efforts, but in general CM has seen a steady yearly growth of players during almost every single Administrations reigns.
I'd love to reinforce this with actual data/stats which I had back during my time as Manager, but I unfortunately don't have access to this anymore.

[SilentMountain]

Just like CABAL said, the atmosphere and the fantastic storytelling potential the game has. Even if you're in delta, getting that feeling of dread as your squad is slowly getting wiped one man at a time, and the xenos have come up behind your attempted push, wuuf, what a rush. One entirely lost on me if I just cared about getting my K/D ratio up and thought of everyone as players, rather than characters that also care about their life. I agree with him a lot with not understanding what an unga makes

This.

All I wanted to do was play a character and RP about the Aliens lore and universe. Why did it have to come to this?.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Report has been sitting idle for 9 days now, if soldier's plan was to take a few weeks off so he didn't have to deal with it, times almost up :P

I’ve been working a lot in real life on the count of the pandemic, civil unrest, overtime available yadda yadda, so I had been planning for a vacation for a couple weeks

The report was discussed a bit between managers and should be resolved Soon tm

[Frozentsbgg]

I'd just like to take a second to give my 0.02$ on the matter.

CM's (and SS13 as a whole) strength comes from its sandbox. What Makes CM a lot more special from mainstream SS13, is that the sandbox has lore and gameplay that makes it a unique experience in which players can create their own stories in a wacky aliens inspired sci-fi universe. The sandbox of CM is what allows for both the combat and RP experience to be so enjoyable.

I personally think that we should be allowing players (and staff) to make the most of this sandbox. Creating wacky out-of-the-box moments inside the sandbox shouldn't be punished. It's what creates the memorable moments that make CM special, and what has made it a long-lasting server. Carson's shitty (and what would likely be considered 'lrp' by today's standards) escapades as commander are ingrained in our culture and lore. A lot can be said negatively about old-era events being shitty. But some of the creative ones (like the insulting cat), still stick in players' minds.

You shouldn't need to ask for permission in order to do something. You should be free to make what you want in this sandbox as long as it's reasonable and not negatively impacting other players. It's my opinion (and please don't look too far into it, it's not targeted towards anyone or me calling anyone out), that staff shouldn't be policing every little thing and interfering with all aspects of roleplay. Staff should be enforcing the rules and should be trying to encourage roleplay, by rewarding attempts to roleplay and be creative, and also by running events which allow for unique experiences, or developing on roleplay which is already occurring.

It's my personal opinion that dreven should not have been punished as harshly for their actions. It was an interesting idea, and they convinced the CDR to sign and go along with it. The only crime I see, is that they called their own nation, instead of claiming it for the company. and that's totally IC in my opinion! This could have been an idea for Wes-Yam to get upset, maybe send a few angry PMC boys to punish their rogue CL who's decided to run an op on the side.

We're not a Milsim RPing community, we're ss13, and I think we shouldn't be punishing weird things just because they're creative and outside of the box.
I do still think there's a line though, but as long as people are playing reasonable characters in the sci-fi setting, not screaming "XD", or negatively impacting the experience of others, I think it should be fair game.

On an additional note,
I think we (Staff and Players), should fax more.
How else do we get to use sexy templates