Wamakahana Windhealer Should not have been CL banned - Killing Server Fun

[Destrok]

if you want unique, fun, new rp to happen on the server then requiring admin permission to do it isnt going to help

we can carry on doing the same shit every round though, no problem

[Just L]

Destrok you can't just have fun without admin permission, only staff can choose when fun is enabled or disabled on the server.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

If you guys are going to act like passive aggressive jerkoffs to staff now, ill lock the thread and we can start dishing out forum bans.
Or we could have an actual discussion and not just make a giant thread to shit on staff saying NO FUN ALLOWED, ADMINS HAVE TO GIVE PERMISSION.

Pending the outcome of the report and when im back from my little vacation, I'm sure we can tackle this issue and not be dicks about it.

[Just L]

If you guys are going to act like passive aggressive jerkoffs to staff now, ill lock the thread and we can start dishing out forum bans.
Or we could have an actual discussion and not just make a giant thread to shit on staff saying NO FUN ALLOWED, ADMINS HAVE TO GIVE PERMISSION.

Pending the outcome of the report and when im back from my little vacation, I'm sure we can tackle this issue and not be dicks about it.

The thread has been pretty reasonable so far, though.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

The thread has been pretty reasonable so far, though.

ADMINS DONT LET US HAV FUN WTF isn't anyway to solve the "problem" and all sides have valid arguments.
When the report is resolved and I get back, I plan to talk to managers/developers about the state of RP because I agree there are issues that need to be fixed.

[BeardedWall]

This thread is not pointless "backseat moderating" and I should not have to become staff to give input on rule interpretation. Anymore than having I have to become a lawyer to disagree with law. In fact I had to make this thread here because there IS nowhere for us to argue rule interpretation. My attempt to do so in the report itself was ruled as "not relevant" and I ate a forum infraction.

You are about to likely set a precedent on what CLs can and Cannot do. We have a grey area. On one side is fun but may be outside the norm the other is prohibiting this kind of play. On a character that is agreed to have no purpose, Waka tried something and not only got punished but banned.

The entire point of this thread is that the attitude SHOULD be FUN>RULES. And "I tried something it didnt work" seems to be fine for mods but not players. Pretending that the question should be asked by fax..come on. No one buys that not even the people who wrote it. Hell the wiki itself says faxes wont be answered.


Equally distressing is the apparent targeting of Waka (and players). In a game where mods are allowed to spawn giant cats, monster corgis, make the captain small; I fail to see how what waka was doing was not allowed, let alone severe enough to warrant a job ban. This is not the first time I have seen this "rules dont apply to me" attitude. Hell we can go back the the emerald report of spawning ammo and stuff that blew up months ago. In which people who posted in the report were banned and ultimately it went away. There are other instants of rounds being ruined by spawning crazy items, or monsters that dont make sense and it was ruled "whoops that didnt work oh well".


And I like the staff, I think they do a great job for free. Rare is the argument I have with staff or even a negative interaction. Hell, the one staff member who told me to kill myself; I like to think we are on good terms now. Just... lighten up guys OR make this a mil sim and the final gimmicky players like Waka can join Carson, Gerdy, and other losses we have had.

P.S. I am fine with staff having fun and spawning everything including mega corgis. It's hilarious and in good fun. But I also feel like Wakas was too.

P.S.S. It is heresy that a mod in question threatened to retire if this ban was overturned but if so...that is silly shit.

[Dreven]

It's quite simple when you get warned 2 times for something and continue that behavior, you'll get banned.

Now should he have been warned in the first place? Well self-antagging is no-go no matter, but as long as the RP could fit in the Aliens setting it would at least not be LRP.

Making your own store and trying to run Almayer like you own it, sure, go ahead. Make your own nation on Almayer called "Windgonia" and starting to recruit citizens? No, that's not fitting.

Having a CL be nuts and believe in voodoo is stretching it, but it could work depending on how far someone takes it.


About the events. Events are here to break up the normal gameplay and do something special for the round, now I personally only do "realistic" events that could fit in the theme of Aliens, but a funny event from time to time really isnt the end of the world. Why shouldn't players be allowed to wacky fun stuff from time to time then? well they do actually get to, but only when they ask for permission first. There are times where the LRP events take overhand, but with 40 people in staff, you'll be hard pressed to come to an agreement on grey areas, which is why they're grey areas. One person might be okay with what you're doing, the other might not, but that only matters if you didn't get permission first.


Making a thread like this is pointless, if you want to backseat moderate, become a moderator instead. If you want to try something new in a round, ask first and you'll never be punished.

I mean all i've asked for is for a single person to tell me how Windgonia was self antag, and no one has explained that to me yet. And that last sentence is pretty bad man, "Dont discuss the rules, just become a mod instead and enforce them!!!!". This isn't pointless backseat moderating, its the community discussing the game we all play. And also I was never warned about windgonia, I was warned about basically greytiding items across the ship for my store, which I did stop doing. But this isn't the thread for me to turn into a ban appeal and i've repeated all this before.

ADMINS DONT LET US HAV FUN WTF isn't anyway to solve the "problem" and all sides have valid arguments.
When the report is resolved and I get back, I plan to talk to managers/developers about the state of RP because I agree there are issues that need to be fixed.

No ones even going off like that soldier, theirs actually alot of healthy discussion going on?? Maybe the reason people do push that cliche is because it has a core of truth to it. RP standards are completely up to the whims of whatever highest ranking mod is on at the time, this was shown to me when I was last banned for saying 'unga' and 'xendigo' and has been proven many times before and after that by other players being boinked for similar things. I respect that you are going to be taking a look at it, but me making a staff report shouldent have had to been the catalyst for this to happen, but its good that its happening and it makes me happy. Theirs a wide disconnect between what players enjoy out of CM, and what staff want players to enjoy out of CM, yall should be embracing player driven fun and not fighting against it, it would lead to a better server for everyone.

[BeardedWall]

I mean all i've asked for is for a single person to tell me how Windgonia was self antag, and no one has explained it to me yet

I think this is the central crux of the issue. And one of the grey issues. As I see them they are.

1. It seems to me that the CL having their own office, with shutters that only they can activate (and not even the MPs or CO can override) means that the CL owns that. I have always thought their office acts as an "embassy" for WY company. Is there an interpretation that defines how someone outside of the military system can modify their area? Does the CL not own this space? Note: This is entirely different from "cargonia" as requisitions is a public area critical to the function of the ship. The CLs office could disappear (or be blown up) and no one would care/ be impacted.

2. The CL regularly recruits marines to do shady shit, it happens all the time. As far as I have seen this is fine until the captain objects, and the captain did not. If the marines were being hired by WY instead of Windgonia.. would it still be wrong?

3. The CL also regularly does deals with money (mostly for eggs) and other shady transactions. If sales and transactions are fine then how could selling items not be?

4. Therefore the crossing of the line was... giving it a name? At which point did he cross the line? If he had just said "my office" the whole time instead of Windgonia.. would we still be here?


This just seems like such a far shot from like... occupying requisitions and fighting to death for no reason. And the clarifications above even to the first rule will have VERY important impacts to how CL can be played.

[HoseaPalindrome]

You know, threatening forum bans and locking threads is just gonna make people shit on admins harder than anything this thread/ban could achieve, right? Like you can almost already see it; "STAFF CLIQUE CONFIRMED, BADMINS POWERTRIPPING, SOLDIER CONFIRMED MP MAIN...etc"

The decision to ban Wamakwahabga is evidently controversial, and given that people need an outlet to vent this thread is surprisingly civil. No one was called names or being a dick about this, but a lot of people in this community are obviously upset, and you're not gonna get a discussion about what some people perceive as unfair without some salt pouring out (I mean even you're calling people passive aggresive jerkoffs while saying they should be nicer)

I don't quite get your earlier statement though. You said you personally don't wanna be "gimmick police", but what would you say this entire thing is about if not a mod being exactly that? And after all the opinions and rebuttals, do you still think this was LRP? And if so, it would be nice if you could elaborate a bit on why exactly

4. Therefore the crossing of the line was... giving it a name? At which point did he cross the line? If he had just said "my office" the whole time instead of Windgonia.. would we still be here?

Honestly, say what you will about taking the concept 100% seriously, roleplay setting it, having a justification, in-game reasoning and all-a that jazz, naming it windgonia immediately makes people think it's LRP shittery

[BeardedWall]

ADMINS DONT LET US HAV FUN WTF isn't anyway to solve the "problem" and all sides have valid arguments.
When the report is resolved and I get back, I plan to talk to managers/developers about the state of RP because I agree there are issues that need to be fixed.

I get where you are coming from and I appreciate you not locking the thread. But the genesis of the thread was me trying to have a discussion and getting shut down. Staff didnt come to us asking our opinion, (honestly from the way y'all are moderating the report you dont seem to want it). So please do not act like this is a round table where we just typed "fuck staff" over and over.

So far the players have been banned (waka), infractioned (me), threatened (everyone on this thread).

So far the staff have been... accused of having a double standard sometime? And.... questioned? I dont think anyone has even insulted anyone yet.

I mean shit, waka didnt even ask for a punishment in his staff report. And by all accounts the mod is still threatening to quit if it gets overturned?


I DO hope this DOES lead to a discussion. I look forward to it.