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Thread: State of Engineers.

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by diedsniper View Post
    Engineer just doesnt hit the same as it used to, I cant really use the points the way I want to because just to get 5 extra un barbed metal cades i have to spend 25/45 of my points on metal,and just to finish off my plasteel stack 14/45 totaling to 39/45, 6 points left, which is just 1 extra metal cade, or an HIDP grenade. All problems mentioned really make engineer not as fun as it used to be
    Honestly man you gotta blame the way that marines play for that. They kept following the cadehug meta, they STILL follow the cadehug meta, so engineers had to get nerfed in some way.

  2. #12
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    Yes, building is p boring right now due to lack of mats. They should've tried making cades cheaper but weaker, instead of making them costy and giga tough. Prenerf FOB meta was much worse doe.

    The funniest shit was seeing people go 'damn my FOB was so awesome it held xenos off for 3 hours holy fuck im an omegabeast', when in reality you didn't need a well-built FOB, you just needed a big FOB with a fuckton of cades and a few people with jtac kits to spam mortar/CAS/OBs. Being a grunt who doesn't enjoy plinking xenos with HPRs and scoped L42s was painful. Still is sometimes.

    Huge FOBs weren't so boring in the past years because building and holding one was much harder and you actually had to push out and frag xenos with your guns, not screen-wide explosives.
    Old LV tcomms FOB fights were awesome. Current FOB sieges are ResidentSleeper.

    Another problem i see is that LZs never got any changes, except for the ones on LV, which basically made it so you build extra 6 cades, and some BR nightmare presets that don't change anything. Everyone with 10+ IQ already knows all the viable layouts.

  3. #13
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    Yeah the current marine strategy is 'EVERYONE RUSH THE NORMAL HIVE LOCATION, IF WE DON'T WIPE THE HIVE INSTANTLY WE WILL GO CAMP THE LZ FOR 2 HOURS AND HOPE THE XENOS ACTUALLY WANT TO PLAY THE GAME STILL'

  4. #14
    Senior Admin & Whitelist Overseer Fortelian's Avatar
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    Imagine not like cade hugging. But I mean, come on, I like cade fights more than open fights. I don't know why, next time I play I'll analyze what I enjoy about it I guess, I just like it though.
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  5. #15
    Whitelisted Synthetic CallunaBorealis's Avatar
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    Engineers loathe boilers because they keep flinging bombards at tightly packed FOBs (as there is less metal to go around) allowing the beefier xenos to advance in the smokescreen and start breaking down the cade lines.

    I have a suggestion though for a barricade upgrade: have a new upgrade type that shields bombards at the expense of lower barricade health.

    What do you guys think?
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  6. #16
    Whitelisted Captain 50RemAndCounting's Avatar
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    Playing engi was always gay as fuck you get verbally abused and micromanaged by 10 different people, you barely have any space for ammo, marines will fuck around with you and impede your work etc etc.
    EVEN IF for whatever reason building cades wasn't soul crushingly boring the role itself is literal cancer
    Sheeesh this boy LRP as hell!

  7. #17
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    Remember when engie was actually useful?
    Me neither
    Last edited by DaDoge; 07-19-2020 at 04:13 PM.

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    Engineers are still pretty vital on prison station (1 and 2 tile chokes to be barricaded), and LV to ease crossing the river. The profession has just gotten sad over the course of the last nine months. I *WISH* I still had 10 people trying to micromanage me. When was the last time you saw a firetime assigned to protect a engie?

    The only 'breakthrough' in cading technology has been to put handrails inside them to keep marines from getting punched while defending, and that's not widespread.

  9. #19
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    Ah, I love not having a reliable access to the internet. Oh well, I'm a boomer and I feel like ranting, so even tho I am late, here goes: Be mindful, I stopped playing somewhere around early july, so take all this with a pinch of salt. Anyways, as always, issue with engineers is the powercreep.

    In the before times, FOBs before were broken by the good old combo of boiler gas + queen screech + a rav, and with much less effect, the crusher train. Then engineers got better, and boilers were given strains. The increased gas area started the whole girderpsam thingie, which, if done correctly was very hard to crack. That got nerfed, but the quality of the engineers was good enough to keep pushing the xenos away. The devs reworked the strains and added the railgun boiler, which was surprisingly hated by the community (because it was not that good for "muh unga"), but it was insanely useful at dealing with FOBs, because it was a massive drain of resources. That refusal to use their tools, led to more and more nerfs, changes to maps to make FOBs easier, portacomms, and the addition of spitter acid spit, which was again hated (and the issue of needing insane quantities of water not adressed properly) until it was so bad that it got reworked. And that's where we are:

    Now most of engineer leeway and options are gone, and instead we got a LOT of sentries and M56s (much more than it's sensible), and free mortar rounds. And even tho we got some noob traps like the bell, xenos have very little tools to deal with well constructed FOBs. Gas+Queen+Rav doesn't quite work, cause teslas are OP as hell, and stops the queen from screeching/ravs from shielding. So boilers have to be able to basically carpet deny the FOB. Sentries got buffed pretty hard, and now lowly t1s can't get near. Sentinels are the only ones that are somewhat decent at it, since they can stay out of sentry range, but in exchange they are pretty squishy. Crushers are mostly glorified defenders against FOBs if they build them well without relying on walls. Warriors, carriers and lurkers are useless unless there's a push out of the FoB, Spitters don't do enough acid damage/high cooldowns, Burrowers are not a real threat... You get it. It's just boilers and trappers vs the world. Which, together with the req changes, obviously leads to engineer nerfs, because you HAVE to have those castes, they have to not be bald, and that's basically all the xenos can do against the ticking bomb of defcon. If you don't have them, you're screwed.

    The solution, to me, is to deescalate. Having a few strong cades suck, cause the situation doesn't change, and it feels like a grind. Having cade lines fall and get rebuilt is much more engaging. Cades need to be plentiful and weaker. Ideally, spitters would be better at dealing with fobs by... idk, refreshing cooldown if they spit on cades (and providing engies with a nuanced access to water (maybe a water condensing machine that requires a resource). Ideally, boilers would not be able to carpet siege the fob (maybe with a machine that can be ordered by req/engie vendors, or salvaged around the map), and get a weaker railgun ability, so that they can still solve the frontline issues (which new boilers do pretty well), while not fucking over FOBs. Ideally, Teslas would be nerfed, to not inhibit the queen (that's what the flag should be for), or make it so that it costs a lot of resources. Ideally, the engineers would have a power grid of sorts, to limit the automated defenses in a flank (while not limiting the options).

    When you have limited tools, you have limited things to do, and things get boring, but having too many tools can get out of control if it's not gated by a mechanic (like the power grid)

    I do believe that the deescalation + power grid is a change we need. If it's well designed (which would take a while), it will give engies a problem to solve, it will force Bravo to allocate resources (which while not for everyone, bravos enjoy), and it will limit the sentry spam, to give the xenos a chance to attack. This will allow combat engies to be somewhat decent again, and have a small but reliable source of mats, while not being able to build real FOBs without power (unless you overcommit on the front). It will allow engies to do something fun while the ungas do their thing. It will allow xenos to have a more fun experience by capturing marines that don't manage to vacate a cade line, and see the battle line move, instead of butting their heads at the same cade over and over. It will make sure that if there's a tesla there isn't anything else to stop xeno pushes, and limit the silliness, and it'll make it so that cade lines fall and get taken again, which is the fun thing to experience.

    Having stuff needing to get salvaged to bolster the FOB would give the bravo ungas that want to QRF another thing to do outside patrolling and protecting the engies, or will change charlie's orders from power and unga to power, salvage and reinforce. And could also make forgotten parts of the map more interactive or something, and stop the MetArUsH cries, Idk.


    TLR: Powercreep killed engies. Nerf teslas to patch it up for now, deescalate, and instate a power grid to manage the sentryspam, and make shit fun again. /rant
    Last edited by RNGPriest; 07-27-2020 at 02:43 PM.
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  10. #20
    Senior Admin & Whitelist Overseer Fortelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RNGPriest View Post
    Ah, I love not having a reliable access to the internet. Oh well, I'm a boomer and I feel like ranting, so even tho I am late, here goes: Be mindful, I stopped playing somewhere around early july, so take all this with a pinch of salt. Anyways, as always, issue with engineers is the powercreep.

    In the before times, FOBs before were broken by the good old combo of boiler gas + queen screech + a rav, and with much less effect, the crusher train. Then engineers got better, and boilers were given strains. The increased gas area started the whole girderpsam thingie, which, if done correctly was very hard to crack. That got nerfed, but the quality of the engineers was good enough to keep pushing the xenos away. The devs reworked the strains and added the railgun boiler, which was surprisingly hated by the community (because it was not that good for "muh unga"), but it was insanely useful at dealing with FOBs, because it was a massive drain of resources. That refusal to use their tools, led to more and more nerfs, changes to maps to make FOBs easier, portacomms, and the addition of spitter acid spit, which was again hated (and the issue of needing insane quantities of water not adressed properly) until it was so bad that it got reworked. And that's where we are:

    Now most of engineer leeway and options are gone, and instead we got a LOT of sentries and M56s (much more than it's sensible), and free mortar rounds. And even tho we got some noob traps like the bell, xenos have very little tools to deal with well constructed FOBs. Gas+Queen+Rav doesn't quite work, cause teslas are OP as hell, and stops the queen from screeching/ravs from shielding. So boilers have to be able to basically carpet deny the FOB. Sentries got buffed pretty hard, and now lowly t1s can't get near. Sentinels are the only ones that are somewhat decent at it, since they can stay out of sentry range, but in exchange they are pretty squishy. Crushers are mostly glorified defenders against FOBs if they build them well without relying on walls. Warriors, carriers and lurkers are useless unless there's a push out of the FoB, Spitters don't do enough acid damage/high cooldowns, Burrowers are not a real threat... You get it. It's just boilers and trappers vs the world. Which, together with the req changes, obviously leads to engineer nerfs, because you HAVE to have those castes, they have to not be bald, and that's basically all the xenos can do against the ticking bomb of defcon. If you don't have them, you're screwed.

    The solution, to me, is to deescalate. Having a few strong cades suck, cause the situation doesn't change, and it feels like a grind. Having cade lines fall and get rebuilt is much more engaging. Cades need to be plentiful and weaker. Ideally, spitters would be better at dealing with fobs by... idk, refreshing cooldown if they spit on cades (and providing engies with a nuanced access to water (maybe a water condensing machine that requires a resource). Ideally, boilers would not be able to carpet siege the fob (maybe with a machine that can be ordered by req/engie vendors, or salvaged around the map), and get a weaker railgun ability, so that they can still solve the frontline issues (which new boilers do pretty well), while not fucking over FOBs. Ideally, Teslas would be nerfed, to not inhibit the queen (that's what the flag should be for), or make it so that it costs a lot of resources. Ideally, the engineers would have a power grid of sorts, to limit the automated defenses in a flank (while not limiting the options).

    When you have limited tools, you have limited things to do, and things get boring, but having too many tools can get out of control if it's not gated by a mechanic (like the power grid)

    I do believe that the deescalation + power grid is a change we need. If it's well designed (which would take a while), it will give engies a problem to solve, it will force Bravo to allocate resources (which while not for everyone, bravos enjoy), and it will limit the sentry spam, to give the xenos a chance to attack. This will allow combat engies to be somewhat decent again, and have a small but reliable source of mats, while not being able to build real FOBs without power (unless you overcommit on the front). It will allow engies to do something fun while the ungas do their thing. It will allow xenos to have a more fun experience by capturing marines that don't manage to vacate a cade line, and see the battle line move, instead of butting their heads at the same cade over and over. It will make sure that if there's a tesla there isn't anything else to stop xeno pushes, and limit the silliness, and it'll make it so that cade lines fall and get taken again, which is the fun thing to experience.

    Having stuff needing to get salvaged to bolster the FOB would give the bravo ungas that want to QRF another thing to do outside patrolling and protecting the engies, or will change charlie's orders from power and unga to power, salvage and reinforce. And could also make forgotten parts of the map more interactive or something, and stop the MetArUsH cries, Idk.


    TLR: Powercreep killed engies. Nerf teslas to patch it up for now, deescalate, and instate a power grid to manage the sentryspam, and make shit fun again. /rant
    Balance is pretty good right now (I think) so doing any of these things would probably screw us over again.
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