Staff Report - DonCarrot

[Lauren Von Fusegana]

Staff Report

Your BYOND Key

JahFairy

Date of Incident

July 21, 2020

Your Character Name?

Lauren Von Fusegana

Their BYOND Key

DonCarrot

Approximate time and date of the incident

1:30pm ish Central US Time

Which Staff Protocols (//showthrea...-and-Protocols) were broken

2, and 6

Description of the incident

Joined in as a MP, saw that it was a Bill Carson round (so that means lots of arrests and what not), everything went well and accordance with marine law up until this point.

The status was green and brett was requesting backup at north checkpoint. I arrive and saw that the checkpoint shutter window was broken and that Brett was surrounded by about 20+ marines all bunched up together interfering with the arrest of the alpha SL.

So I proceeded to run out there and activate my flash bang, and some scatter back into briefing while others got caught in the blast. All and all, the retrieval of the SL and the safety of the MP was assured.

Later on I got messaged about the incident and told my description of the incident (even though it seemed a bit weird that any actions an MP takes has to involve staff), I eventually show them the same picture, and asked them to ask brett about the situation.

Eventually the staff came to the decision that I was using it on only 5+, and that it isn't considered a riot, even though the picture said during a riot or mob... and that some marines weren't affected because... well, there is a very descriptive prime sound, and beeping, and indicator of it going off...

All the other MPs in LOOC and IC (without breaking the icky ocky rule) have all ruled that I should contest this note. I even asked the staff if the logs showed whether or not people get a noticed that they got flash banged, but I guess they logged off, and didn't really tell me about the note. I had to ask another staff member about it~

I honestly don't know what staffs whole ideal of how to deal and contain a massive amount of marines at one time without the use of flash bangs on code green are... my guess is to either scream at command when you're getting interfered and stuff to change to blue so you can finally get that sweet permission to use flash bangs (cause yeah, that's gonna work) or just start shooting them with taser at full spam mode, and instill more aggression towards them; be me uses pepper spray, and still gets noted on it.

Also no MOOC was announced during the whole incident, and we were not protected by soldiers no interference during round start policy.

Evidence

Logs, and lack of logs of who got stunned banged




Image provided by the MP discord~

How you would punish the accused

Abolish this hidden note procedure of not informing the subject that they received the note... (I don't really care about the note itself; but the fact I have to ask another staff about it is annoying, and that I don't even know what the note says and if it even portrays the whole incident).

Also the changing of the SOP (constantly), and the fact that I now have to check on it religiously every time I play MP now, cause you know...

If you were a staff member and saw this...

Warned for using flashbangs on green
on 2020-07-21 12:36:51

What do you think happened? That some rouge MP just used a flash bang on green alert and got punished for it?

The moderator in question did their best in their abilities, but lack the proper tools and investigation to convict a proper judgement.

No punishment~

[Lauren Von Fusegana]

Lock this thread, round is still going and I don't wanna redo the draft. The map is ice and it's been fucking two hours and it ain't gonna finish anytime soon

[forest2001]

Hidden until the end of the round.

[Don]

Let's start with this: I didn't say you used the flashbang on 5 people, I said that you and the other MP were only disarmed about 5 times (since disarm spamming was your initial justification).


Now, from the beginning:

I didn't witness this situation (because I was playing xeno), my judgement was based on yours and the other MP's testimonies and logs.

Now let's look at SOP on the wiki. The SOP states that flashbangs may only be used on code blue. Hovever, I was told that they may be used on green, IF a riot is occuring. I wasn't aware of such ruling but I went with it because it sounded reasonable. Notice how I said during a riot and not "during a riot or while being mobbed".

So the next question, was that a riot? I would say no, based on logs.

Now, you linked me a screenshot from the MP discord. Am I going to side with a screenshot from a discord I'm not in? Or the Rules page on the wiki? I think the answer is obvious.

As for the flashbang notice, sorry but I had to go. But someone else answered it so no issue. And no, we don't get a log of who was hit by flashbang effect, only who primed it (or who was hit by it being thrown).

Soldier screenshot, well...I wasn't looking at the Almayer. But other staff were observing and playing marine. Didn't think it would be necessary.

As for the hidden note procedure, we don't have a hidden note procedure. Actually, we don't have a note procedure at all (at least not one that's written down). If you tell people they're being noted they get angry, if you don't they get angry, there's no right way of doing this. But notes are not punishment, and I like making it very clear whether a person is being punished or not.




Anyway let's get back to the important part.

You provided a ruling from nanu that clearly says "You can flashbang if there is a riot or if you're being mobbed". And under this ruling I would say what you did was fine. Problem is, I was not aware of it. Furthermore, I searched the main CM discord for this ruling. Specifically, I searched for posts by nanu that contained the words "mobbed", "flashbang" or "riots". None of these searches gave me the ruling you provided. And I already told you what I think of your screenshot.




So to sum it all up, I'm fine with the note being removed if Soldier wants to but I don't think I did anything wrong in this situation.

[Rals]

I was playing as MP Brett McMatherson.

During start of round, CO ordered MP to close checkpoints and so we did. When briefing time came, Alpha SL Lauffer left briefing and went to Starboard Checkpoint, XO asked MP to report to starboard checkpoint as well to stop Alpha:

CDR Jane Harris [MP (XO)] says, "Mps get to north checkpoint"
CDR Jane Harris [MP (XO)] says, "Alpha has left briefing against captains orders"
CDR Jane Harris [MP (XO)] says, "Lead by their SL"

During this time, I was running between checkpoints, because I was lone MP manning said checkpoints. Long story short, Alpha SL tried to C4 shutters and I peppersprayed him. At the same time, XO ordered SL's arrest and I went in to get SL. I used a lot of pepperspray to get to Alpha SL and SL got dragged away from me, at that time, there were around 8 Alphas around me, logs:

I would say, that I was getting overwhelmed by sheer number of marines, who were there. Moderator contacted me and asked for my side of story. After I told him my side and after he reviewed logs of incident, he determined, that event in question should not be considered riot. From logs, I have managed to count 11 different marines, who were in mine line of sight during this incident.

PM logs:

[Lauren Von Fusegana]

Technically speaking; it takes five people to form a mutiny, which leads to a riot~

[ThesoldierLLJK]

I’m just going to throw this out there and say we are not relying on a 3rd party discord for rulings. Anything said in any non official discord is not the gospel. The only rulings that are valid are on the wiki for ML/SOP. Unless it comes from Nanu or Another mangement relating to marine law it’s not a ruling.

[Medi]

Posting Logs of Incident. Ckeys were left in due to relevance to the Report.

Initial announcement by Bill Carson stating that all marines were prohibited to go past the shutters near briefing and had to remain for same.

XO takes Command on keeping this order.

<A number of arrests take place in and around Briefing area. Brett and Lauren are the primary two MPs making the arrests. Arrests appear to be due to Marines refusing to stay in and around briefing. MPs gave warnings but ultimately flashed/OC Sprayed many and arrested more.>

Alpha Squad Leader directs squad to leave briefing.

<There is no log conversation at this point that suggestions what occurred at the North Checkpoint>

Fight between Brett McMatherson and a number of other Marines during arrest.

Flashbang is deployed.

Fights continue...

Ahelp generated.

Mods discuss rules regarding same and begin investigation.

DonCarrot takes Ahelp and finishes investigation.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

This was a giant shit show. So I have some concerns

1. A squad leader and staff member defying orders.
-The intent of a squad leader having to OOCly follow orders is to prevent squads from saying "No I refuse to do FOB duty." Refusing to attend briefing and do it somewhere else is technically a violation of this rule. I've spoken with Snooper44 about this in private and chastised him for it. Since the report was more so what DonCarrot did, and that the MPs were trying to do their jobs against him I'm leaving as is, but rest assured, he did not get off with a slap on a wrist.

2. Flashbangs during code green
-Yes Nanu changed the SOP for blue because of MPs abusing flashbangs in the past. However the one thing I consider in Marine Law and SOP is this

Police may use non-lethal riot gear to subdue Marines during a Mutiny or large gatherings of insubordinate personnel. Flashbangs are considered a Riot tool.

I would consider this situation you had a gathering of insubordinate personnel, and you have a circumstance that leads to a quick decision. It would be unreasonable to yell "CO MARINES ARE INTERFERING CODE BLUE REEEE" You have an MP using pepper spray, I see this as a player made a judgement call to go to flashbangs, and not an attempt to grief the server or harm marines.


3. OOC protection reminder
JahFairy you can always ahelp now, if you need. I bought this rule back so MPs would stop getting ganked trying to do their job. If people are interfering with your arrest, adminhelp it.

4. ML/SOP Rulings
The Wiki for ML/SOP is the Gospel. We don't do ML rulings, we don't rely on other discords. If there is to be a change to Marine Law, Nanu will always update the wiki. It is up to all MP/CMP players to make sure if they choose to play the role to make sure they know it.


As far DonCarrot, everyone admits he did his job, and this is just one of those rare situations where a judgement call is needed after the fact. Yeah you technically violated SOP JahFairy and my moderator didn't do anything wrong, but looking at the totality of the circumstances, I will give you the courtesy of removing your note.