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Thread: DeepDishPizza - Commanding Officer Application

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScreamingIdiot View Post
    Sure.



    1. Your first mistake was assuming the officer couldn't be charged with insub if he was manning the OW console. I'm not entirely sure if this was just poor wording but to clarify Insubordination constitutes any instance where someone fails to follow a lawful order from a superior person of rank or position or disrespecting someone of a higher rank or position that is not an officer, meaning that if the SO disrespected the CMP/MP at any time (even remotely or indirectly) they would have to be charged with insub. Your second mistake was not clarifying how you plan to determine if the charges were valid in the first place (since the SO denies committing insub), such as individually questioning the SO, MP, CMP, and any other witnesses to the crime in question. Finally, you did not plan to follow up on the SO's sentencing to make sure he would be fit to continue his duties as a commissioned officer due to the very clear conflict that has emerged between him and the MPs: for instance, if the SO orders the MPs to arrest a marine on the ship for insubordination against him, it is likely the MPs would either refuse due to their previous spat or try to circumvent his authority in some fashion and subsequently undermine him. To clarify, there were only a couple things objectively wrong with your answer, the rest only demonstrated a lack of initiative and foresight on how things might develop from the hypothetical situation. So even if your actions here wouldn't be considered Neglect of Duty or wholly incompetent, they are sub-optimal.

    2. The primary issue here is assuming that the conflict between the PMCs and the shipside staff would be resolved by a single announcement, an optimistic gamble at best. Most likely this issue would require direct intervention on your part, likely with assistance by a majority of your command staff and the Corporate Liaison, which could eventually escalate into arresting and demoting the CMP and some of his subordinates for Sedition and/or Neglect of Duty for following unlawful orders. Furthermore, you would also likely have to properly inform and pacify whatever PFCs got caught up in the excitement as they are often very, very trigger-happy during tense shipside events like these. The rest of your answer is alright, though again it lacks any elaboration on contingencies and/or actions you would take to prevent the situation from further escalating out of control which may occur even after the PMCs have left the Almayer. Again, your answer demonstrates a lack of practical experience despite none of it being objectively incorrect, merely sub-optimal and naively optimistic.

    3. This answer I found to be the most upsetting, despite the described strategy being entirely valid. By your own admission you would simply write off the operation without any attempt to re-organise your support staff to better assist the operation, as well as not even considering creatively utilising the resources at your disposal to revitalise DEFCON, Requisitions' budget, or groundside morale. To give a few examples, you could have sent the Synth and the CE to fix and man the tank so it would become fully operational again, recycled non-essential parts of the Almayer to resupply FOB materials and refill Req's budget, sent some of your SOs/XO to work on intel to bump up DEFCON, and/or personally intervene to make sure whatever needs doing gets done right. There are many other strategies and creative solutions you could've come up with here, and the scenario presented is certainly salvageable besides not even being all that dire compared to what regularly occurs on many actual rounds (CIC nearly empty, no Synth or CE, medbay nearly empty, no Req staff, lowpop blues, etc). In conclusion, your answer is again not technically wrong but speaks volumes of your lack of experience, initiative, confidence, and creativity as a commissioned officer, which is not something that you should be struggling with as a CO.

    To echo myself and a lot of other feedback you've gotten, you need more experience to truly shine as CO. As is you'd make a decent XO+, but you certainly lack the chops to make a great CO.
    This is great feedback, I'm definitely committing a lot of this to memory for the time. I suppose It's my fault for not asking about the details into these situations so I'll just take this information, but I'm very glad to get your feedback on this. #1 had me thinking that since the only witness was the MP and the CMP, there wasn't any reason to pressure an investigation into the crime since I couldnt ask anyone else if the crime they committed was actually valid. Maybe I'm failing to read the tone through just words here, but what I'm getting from this scenario is "Don't trust just the word of your MPs, including your CMP" even though there isn't any physical evidence that I could use to contradict the sentencing aside from hoping whoever is lying confesses. Another note is that if the SO tells the MP to make an arrest for a valid crime, it would be against their job entirely to flat out disobey them. Is the mistake with "accountability" placing too much trust in my command staff to follow proper orders and procedures, and for them to learn their mistakes by brig? #2 also seems to tell me not to trust my team of MPs to not follow the law, and outright disobey me whenever I tell them to stand down and let the PMCs do their work. There's zero reason anyone should harass the investigation team unless theyre outright provoking, and double that if a commanding officer is telling them to stand down. Again, with all this contingency and counter planning it seems that one of the messages here is to not trust my command staff at all, and to try and get it all done myself. #3 I really have no rebuttal for, yes I could run around scrapping the ship and deploying various command staff to try and save the operation but with all of this taking incredible amounts of time the FOB would have likely fallen once everything was organized and ready to be pushed out.

    Again, I appreciate the feedback and I'll note this response down for new tactics to use whenever I may find myself at a dead end when leading. Let me know if I misinterpreted anything.

  2. #22
    Whitelisted Captain ScreamingIdiot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeepDishPizza View Post
    This is great feedback, I'm definitely committing a lot of this to memory for the time. I suppose It's my fault for not asking about the details into these situations so I'll just take this information, but I'm very glad to get your feedback on this. #1 had me thinking that since the only witness was the MP and the CMP, there wasn't any reason to pressure an investigation into the crime since I couldnt ask anyone else if the crime they committed was actually valid. Maybe I'm failing to read the tone through just words here, but what I'm getting from this scenario is "Don't trust just the word of your MPs, including your CMP" even though there isn't any physical evidence that I could use to contradict the sentencing aside from hoping whoever is lying confesses. Another note is that if the SO tells the MP to make an arrest for a valid crime, it would be against their job entirely to flat out disobey them. Is the mistake with "accountability" placing too much trust in my command staff to follow proper orders and procedures, and for them to learn their mistakes by brig? #2 also seems to tell me not to trust my team of MPs to not follow the law, and outright disobey me whenever I tell them to stand down and let the PMCs do their work. There's zero reason anyone should harass the investigation team unless theyre outright provoking, and double that if a commanding officer is telling them to stand down. Again, with all this contingency and counter planning it seems that one of the messages here is to not trust my command staff at all, and to try and get it all done myself. #3 I really have no rebuttal for, yes I could run around scrapping the ship and deploying various command staff to try and save the operation but with all of this taking incredible amounts of time the FOB would have likely fallen once everything was organized and ready to be pushed out.

    Again, I appreciate the feedback and I'll note this response down for new tactics to use whenever I may find myself at a dead end when leading. Let me know if I misinterpreted anything.
    The point I was trying to make for #1 is to never make assumptions based simply on the rank or standing of your subordinates. Yes, you should give your MP team the benefit of the doubt and take their word over that of lower-ranking personnel as they are the representatives and enforcers of Marine Law, but that does not mean you shouldn't take the time to investigate their claims yourself, particularly if the situation in question is a "he says, she says" issue. Though MPs are supposed to be the ultimate authority and enforcers of Marine Law and server rules, they are all being played by real people who can be just as fallible or biased as anyone else. In essence, someone's in-game role is just that: a role they take on and try to fulfill (usually) to the best of their ability, not a reflection of their real character. Everyone can make mistakes or rash judgements, including yourself: that is why the CO is the ultimate check-and-balance for player accountability. I can personally attest there are many, many times MPs and CMPs will make bad calls out of misunderstandings or biases, and the same goes for any commissioned officer or other roles.

    The main takeaway from this is not "trust nobody," but instead to "assume nothing" and review such situations with the impartial perspective afforded by your rank. This is a very important thing to keep in mind as a CO, because you are in many ways above the CMP regarding Marine Law: you can only be arrested with HC approval, pardon non-capital crimes, accept appeals, cancel executions, modify SOP, etc. These privileges are intended to allow you to serve as an impartial judge on cases where there is a conflict of interests or miscommunication, someone who can balance the absolute authority of Marine Law with the needs of the operation and the fallibility and biases of your subordinates.

    Again, your answer to #1 highlights your inexperience as you lacked the perspective and knowledge to keep both sides of the problem accountable, instead assuming everyone involved would be performing their duties flawlessly.


    The same goes for #2, as you shouldn't assume that your MPs will actively disobey you when given the opportunity, but instead be prepared for them to follow bad orders or escalate tense situations. Even if there is no apparent reason for there to be conflict between a 3rd party and the MPs, miscommunication, thoughtlessness, and bad calls can go a very long way in turning a simple dispute to a massive clusterfuck. The flashpoint for the situation presented was the CMP misinforming his subordinates about the intent of the PMCs, which snowballed into an armed standoff as the MPs, in turn, fully trusted the CMP's orders without investigating the matter further. It is a classic example of bad leadership, not a failing of the MPs themselves: the CMP doubled down on a bad call and took advantage of the faith his subordinates had in him. Your job as CO is to remedy this by being an example of good leadership, someone who makes an effort to analyze and confirm all the intelligence available to them before issuing orders.

    The optimal solution here would be to deal with the CMP, having him stand down his men to prevent the situation from escalating. Whether this includes making an announcement, intervening personally, arresting the CMP, or even Battlefield Executing them is irrelevant: it is essential you step in and take decisive action before the situation escalates out of control. If you think this is excessive or unnecessary, I'd like to simply remind you that every role is played by a real person who is fully capable of being stubborn, prideful, and thoughtless to the extreme. Never assume someone knows better just because of their in-game role, because that is how rounds get derailed. I and many, many other COs have played through rounds similar to the situation I presented, with quite a few of them being even more ridiculous.

    Again, this all boils down to never making assumptions: always keep an eye on your staff and always be ready to intervene and set things straight.


    As for #3, the question wasn't really intended for you to find the most optimal or tactically efficient solution but rather the one that will maximize the involvement and enjoyment of other players in the game with the resources available to you. Yes, retreating would be the most realistic and cost-efficient solution, but it would also result in a significant portion of the playerbase not being able to fulfill their role's expectations or even expand them in creative, enjoyable ways. What sounds more fun: waiting until the Dropship comes to pick you up without having to fight anyone off, or doing your damndest to repel the enemy with the limited tools at your disposal?

    As a CO you have the privilege of executive leadership, being able to make sweeping changes to how the marines play the game at the drop of a hat. Though winning is undeniably enjoyable, it is much more important for a CO to be able to take a losing round and make it as fun as possible for everyone involved. Showing dedication, creativity, and sheer grit in the face of the odds against you is a very empowering sight for your subordinates, even if there is no scenario where you can win. To try your very hardest against the odds while maximizing the round's enjoyment: that is the mark of a great CO.


    That about does it for elaborating on the questions you had regarding my answers. Again, taking the time to really push yourself as an XO, SL, CMP, or any other leadership role will help you experience these situations firsthand and develop your own perspectives.


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  3. #23
    Developer & CO Senator (Major General) naut's Avatar
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    Have you been playing XO more recently?

    I notice you've gotten -- and have noted -- feedback from Scidiot here about your own questions. And, honestly the primary reason this app has stalled a bit is because you haven't really played enough.

    The prospect of you willing to learn from your mistakes as well as having a good amount of criticism taken constructively is a good sign you can improve.

    Unfortunately, though, there's still room for that.

    I don't think you're bad in any way -- I have seen you as an XO and I think you do well (especially relative to a lot of lesser-known XOs) but I still think you need another month. I think you applied too soon and Scidiot's remarks on you go to show it.

    Play more XO (though be VERY careful not to burn out), learn the ins and outs, gain criticism from this application and try again in a month. I'm sure the odds will swing in your favor by then. You just have to wait another month before you can get the role.

    But for now I'm gonna have to go with a soft -1 for now. Not because I don't think you wouldn't be a good CO -- I just think you're not ready for the role yet.

    If you got any questions, feel free to DM me or any other CO councilor. We need COs to be highly experienced in tactics and strategy.
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  4. #24
    Senior Admin & Whitelist Overseer Fortelian's Avatar
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    It seems that you don't take the initiative, in these scenarios, presented by scidiot and I. My biggest problem is your answer to my first question:

    Q.1. An MP is arrested for desertion for deploying planetside, and the CMP had the XO announce his execution already. The MP seems new, but the CMP already has him in the execution chamber, with only a minute 'till his death. You've been awake the whole OP and in CIC. What do you do, if anything?

    A.1. Ahelp the MP. Desertion is a capital crime, and it must be answered to. However I think any MP worth their weight in salt has read marine law, and if he's new then I would hope they're given a second chance to keep playing so long as they understand the rules better. I'll attend the execution at hand then resume my duties.

    The CMP cannot just authorize an execution on his own authority. The XO and CMP (working togethe can only authorize an execution in the captain's absence. You were not absent at all. If the CMP actually did this, he would be charged with Unauthorized execution. He could have the MP arrested, but he would need your approval to carry out the execution. If you were under the assumption that you had already approved it, then that would be even worse. If I were in that scenario I would have rushed to the brig and had the CMP arrested. Also, desertion is a big crime to apply to a new MP. While it is not technically wrong to do so under marine law, you should give a new player a crime along the lines of Neglect of Duty. This would allow you to pardon them and have the SEA teach them, or just let them serve their time and then have the SEA teach them.

    I don't think that you're a griefer, or intentionally trying to ruin anyone's round, but in this instance you failed to use your power to stop this harm. As the captain you are the highest authority on marine law. Use that power to limit anyone who might try to abuse it, which would be the CMP in this case.
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  5. #25
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    I haven't seen you around as XO or SO, Although. I did know you play as CMP, however that few round I did see you as CMP we didn't interact meaningfully. At most I seen you play as CE and would help windhealer with his CL shop. Before I cast my vote I would first ask you a couple question before I decide.

    1. You have a lawbreaking marines on the run, the crime at hand is nothing capital or serious. this take place at 12:30. You have no MP available but have full CIC available.

    2. The Round has been stagnant, it has been at the very least, 13:20. The maps at hand are irrelevant as this situation could apply to any, you are fully staffed on all department. Your marines have suffered significant casualties and are not able to make any successful push. Not without someone going groundside and coordinating them your action?

    3. Somehow, a survivor has stole your cat and is now hiding somewhere, he threatened to kill jone if you or someone try to arrest him. However, an MP acted and has attempted to arrest the survivor, he killed the cat but he was also arrested. Your action?

  6. #26
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    Why are there CO apps still up when Captain is being removed as a role?

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by naut View Post
    Have you been playing XO more recently?

    I notice you've gotten -- and have noted -- feedback from Scidiot here about your own questions. And, honestly the primary reason this app has stalled a bit is because you haven't really played enough.

    The prospect of you willing to learn from your mistakes as well as having a good amount of criticism taken constructively is a good sign you can improve.

    Unfortunately, though, there's still room for that.

    I don't think you're bad in any way -- I have seen you as an XO and I think you do well (especially relative to a lot of lesser-known XOs) but I still think you need another month. I think you applied too soon and Scidiot's remarks on you go to show it.

    Play more XO (though be VERY careful not to burn out), learn the ins and outs, gain criticism from this application and try again in a month. I'm sure the odds will swing in your favor by then. You just have to wait another month before you can get the role.

    But for now I'm gonna have to go with a soft -1 for now. Not because I don't think you wouldn't be a good CO -- I just think you're not ready for the role yet.

    If you got any questions, feel free to DM me or any other CO councilor. We need COs to be highly experienced in tactics and strategy.
    Yeah, I've been playing a lot of XO. I did disappear for a week due to health issues with one of my family so I had to leave for a while. I've been having some odd luck playing with Juro and a captain named Fabio (If I recall correctly) I pretty much only have my preferences set to high as XO and then I fill in once the round starts to whatever department needs people.
    Also, I think its kind of funny mentioning highly experienced COs in tactics and strategy when captains like Juro and Carson exist, only to name two off the top of my head. Naturally I dont want to imply I should win every round and my strategies have to be cut and dry each time, but I know what youre saying.
    Last edited by DeepDishPizza; 09-10-2020 at 11:44 PM.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by special2kira View Post
    I haven't seen you around as XO or SO, Although. I did know you play as CMP, however that few round I did see you as CMP we didn't interact meaningfully. At most I seen you play as CE and would help windhealer with his CL shop. Before I cast my vote I would first ask you a couple question before I decide.

    1. You have a lawbreaking marines on the run, the crime at hand is nothing capital or serious. this take place at 12:30. You have no MP available but have full CIC available.

    2. The Round has been stagnant, it has been at the very least, 13:20. The maps at hand are irrelevant as this situation could apply to any, you are fully staffed on all department. Your marines have suffered significant casualties and are not able to make any successful push. Not without someone going groundside and coordinating them your action?

    3. Somehow, a survivor has stole your cat and is now hiding somewhere, he threatened to kill jone if you or someone try to arrest him. However, an MP acted and has attempted to arrest the survivor, he killed the cat but he was also arrested. Your action?
    I never had a round with windhealer as CE. The most I've ever helped windhealer is giving him booze vendors and hatchets. You might of mistaken me for someone else

    1. I think I need more details in your questions, you mention it's only A law breaking marineS, so I'd like to know an exact number in the question
    2. I dont know how the map at hand could be irrelevant, seeing that each map can give different strategies and offer different ways to play and how to use my marines. Also I cant really tell if youre trying to imply that I, or someone else, should deploy in this question either with Not without someone going groundside and coordinating them your action?
    3. This is the only clear cut answer, that being the survivor would get executed for killing Jones shortly after his arrest for murder charges.

    Thanks for the questions, hope I can help you give a clearer response.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Axyinious's Avatar
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    I am going to have to agree with what Scidiot, naut and what others have pointed out.
    I have seen you as a XO however I think that you do not have the necessary experience for this whitelist yet.
    I suggest you play XO, MP, SO for two months so the community can attest to your experience.

    NEGATIVE vote for now but you are in the right tracks.
    I play as Viktor 'Beer' Kleiner, Matthaus and as Var'dqi Bo'ytill




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  10. #30
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    Denied due to lack of Council/Community support. You are very close, play XO for a month and re-apply again and you have a great shot at becoming a CO.

    Resolved - Denied, you may reapply in 30 days from this message.

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