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Thread: Roleplay Standards aren't being enforced

  1. #71
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    If you think Xenos need RP I'm going to kill you

  2. #72
    Senior Member Nyvrem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentMountain View Post
    Problem is that marines being able to win on the ground should never be top priority, creating problems that people have to solve is how the game creates situation that you adapt and overcome. This tunnel vision that everyone should be on equal footing and what matters is which team takes the win is what has brought us to the sorry state of current matters.
    Winning isn't important, but the possibility of victory is what makes fighting worth your time. If that possibility disappears because of some bullshit entirely outside of your control, it's not fun, because it feels like you are wasting your time. I have played CIC during shipside events where it genuinely felt like the event halved the chance of the marines winning or even lowered it far beyond that. It's a bad feeling, because it feels you like failed your responsibility to help the marines get an interesting fight.

    There is leeway here, of course, people that think nothing should be allowed to negatively impact the marines are too deadset on their victory, I would agree. However, if it feels like your victory was robbed from you by something you had zero impact on, it sucks. A balance must be struck.
    Last edited by Nyvrem; 08-21-2020 at 10:03 AM.
    What I play sometimes depends on how tired I am. I play: Maria Heintze, Maartje Rijnders, Johanna Hal and Amalia Verkerk. When I xeno I play QT-P1.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentMountain View Post
    Problem is that marines being able to win on the ground should never be top priority, creating problems that people have to solve is how the game creates situation that you adapt and overcome. This tunnel vision that everyone should be on equal footing and what matters is which team takes the win is what has brought us to the sorry state of current matters.
    It's not about winning as much as it is about how the ground side player base feels they are being treated. Ship side roles should be required to prioritize their actual jobs over RP, as failure to do this means ground side roles are left to suffer from their abandonment of their duties. The idea of better understanding of the situation is so important roles like CIC aren't wasting time fluffing about when their needed, understanding will allow them to know when they can enjoy a break and RP around more and when they have to contribute to overall ground side.

    My issue is the fact that shipside as it is barely contributes enough to the ground side outside of Medical and sometimes REQ throwing more RP will place a stronger burden on those that actually do a brunt of the work on the ship while naturally creating a hatred for ship side roles that ground side troops will over time feel are nothing but dead weight.
    Last edited by Tranquil; 08-21-2020 at 05:26 PM. Reason: word salad as per usual

  4. #74
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyvrem View Post
    Winning isn't important, but the possibility of victory is what makes fighting worth your time.
    And that's the problem, the constant miopic focus on PvP action and making the game a "mass TDM" is what has attracted and fomented this mentality where people think winning is the point and reward.

    Lord forgive me but as stupid sounding as the old administration's "Embrace the suck" motto was, it was at least correct in the sense that the player should never try to get mad because his gyro barrel charger mag harness shotgun did not do enough damage per tick to kill the lurker in one shot and instead focus on the setting, the situation, other players, everything but the most lacking aspect of the game.

    BYOND combat is and will always be awful, best it can be done is make it so it is as straightforward and painless as possible, what cannot be done however is try to make it the center piece of the game and make it stick out like a sore thumb because 1. It will ALWAYS be laggy enough that the people that want the TDM action will complain, and trying to make it less laggy will be in detriment of any depth the game has and 2. At the end of the day it will still be shallow as fuck and constantly adding stuff to it will just make it laggier and turn into a race to the bottom development-wise.

  5. #75
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquil View Post
    My issue is the fact that shipside as it is barely contributes enough to the ground side outside of Medical and sometimes REQ throwing more RP will place a stronger burden on those that actually do a brunt of the work on the ship while naturally creating a hatred for ship side roles that ground side troops will over time feel are nothing but dead weight.
    I want to highlight a phrase you wrote: " those that actually do a brunt of the work ". What is the work ? Well killing Aliens of course, what for ? To win, obviously. This encapsulates what in my opinion is the cause of this mess.

    Mind you im not saying you're wrong or that you're a pleb or whatever, what im saying is that devs have made "PFCs clicking on xeno sprites until horizontal" in itself the entire point of the game. When the focus of the game is put there, everything that does not contribute to that is a nuisance at best and a detriment at worst as you correctly pointed out.

    On the short term we did not notice much of a difference but on the span of a couple years the change has been noticeable enough that people that were around before this shift in development have seen not only the game change but also the playerbase. It's a circle where TDM focused development attracts TDM seeking players who in turn make devs say "most of our players want no RP and more TDM so we gotta focus on tuning the combat".

    It's why almost every shipside role has been stream lined to such a comical degree that they come down to either clicking on a single button or quite literally 2 clicks on a nano UI window. Medbay is nowadays halfway empty most of the time unless it's after planet evac, engineers and MTs are more useless than the CL now who is still useless as shit, MPs are now actively inventing crimes as there's literally no friction on the crew or people with opposing goals, everything has been filed down both OOC and IC so that nothing interrupts or gets in the way of "PFCs clicking on xeno sprites until horizontal".

    People here think RP will come back if Admins just crack down harder on memers or make it illegal to build a bar on maint or whatever, but that's missing the forest for the trees. To bring RP back you need development towards RP gameplay and Im 80% sure that is not in the agenda of the dev team because again "most of our players want no RP and more TDM so we gotta focus on tuning the combat".

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentMountain View Post
    And that's the problem, the constant miopic focus on PvP action and making the game a "mass TDM" is what has attracted and fomented this mentality where people think winning is the point and reward.
    I just want to point this out since I believe it's related to the original intention of CM.

    Back in 2015 when the game was actually being thought out with lore, win conditions and going through it's actual refinement we talked a lot about what the focus should be. (we also didnt have mechanics for a marine end-game win really)
    The focus was never to "win", it was the adventure, it was the story and it was the teamwork that brought you to the end.

    It's in part why we pushed a 70% Win-rate for Xenos back in the day, to push a story of David versus Goliath. It was a narrative that winning isn't the focus, but rather the battle to the end was the adventure of your character whether that was winning or losing.
    Every step towards winning or losing was a set-piece strategically placed to forward that story narrative.

    It's why for the longest time the rounds ended with "Thus ends the story of the Almayer", as it wasn't about winning but rather your individual story from that round.

  7. #77
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Waste 20 minutes on gearing up, listening to shitty breiffing, avoid shitler MPs, go to DS, drop. Walk few steps, get jumped by pre-moba lurker, die, get dragged into the darkest corner of the map. - Individual story from that round for many marine players during 75-25.

    Drop the focus on benos and we will have RP.

    You are still arguing for RP with one bland and boring setting.

    Self-run Zombies, CLF, UPP, Preds, PMCs, DS. This is the solution.
    REDEMPTION

  8. #78
    Senior Member Pigeon's Avatar
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    Variety never hurts.

    Aliens just winning doesnt help, oh nice you just made it one faction gets to get thier win condition. What made 70-30 intresting is the fact the aliens are hard or nigh impossible to stop unless you stop people from being captured but the weakening of capturing has led to metarush or lose for aliens as they wont win the long game. You need better comeback mechanics for aliens so they get the 70-30 by trying to get to get that 70-30.

  9. #79
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    I think the first-contact rule change has affected the state of RP with its removal

    I'm not saying we should bring it back, but while it was in place both sides (esp marines) had more of an RP inclination describing the planet and early engagements

    and it's gone now so that little bit of RP that happened every round is lost, there isn't really an 'opportunity' to RP as much now

    I know you can just 'make' RP as you go along doing whatever your doing, but it's honestly hard to do on our few maps, hundreds of times, and even when done, in this thread people are getting called out for some of it being gimmick or unfitting or whatever

    maybe we've exhausted RP scenarios after 5+ years with our current tools

    again don't bring it back, just pointing it out

  10. #80
    Senior Member Dreven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reuben owen View Post
    I think the first-contact rule change has affected the state of RP with its removal

    I'm not saying we should bring it back, but while it was in place both sides (esp marines) had more of an RP inclination describing the planet and early engagements

    and it's gone now so that little bit of RP that happened every round is lost, there isn't really an 'opportunity' to RP as much now

    I know you can just 'make' RP as you go along doing whatever your doing, but it's honestly hard to do on our few maps, hundreds of times, and even when done, in this thread people are getting called out for some of it being gimmick or unfitting or whatever

    maybe we've exhausted RP scenarios after 5+ years with our current tools

    again don't bring it back, just pointing it out
    Except the RP it provided was super stale and overdone, im sorry but saying "red dog spotted do you think its hostile" every single round isn't good or dynamic RP, its the definition of forced roleplay for the sake of it. What we need to allow for is player driven, character based roleplay that leads to emergent fun and creative stories being made in round, that isn't in conflict with the majority of players who just wanna pewpew xenos as is their god given right
    Last edited by Dreven; 08-22-2020 at 04:16 AM.
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