Fleshing Out Mutators

[prophetb1]

I am thinking about making two seperate posts in this thread that'll showcase mutators with seperate bonuses and flaws, and bonus and flaw in one mutators, since showcasing both types in one post seems spaghetti, and some of the posts here relate to that.

I've also thought about making map-specific/keystone hive mutators that'll reflect a certain ecological niche that's translated for buffs and flaws in one package, like the -
(H)(K) ZeroG Adaptation, Ice Adaptation, Jungle Adaptation, Desert Adaptation, Aquatic Adaptation Your hive's genetic legacy comes from a series of Ice/Jungle/Desert/Aquatic infested worlds..

I've also got permission from discord user UntoldTactics to post a new mutator regarding plasma and transferring it, but there's no description or mutator name, so I've taken the liberty of making these.
(K) Plasma Network - This unit is capable of transmitting plasma to her sisters that are in her sight and on weeds.
15X15 range for tranferring plasma, increased plasma cost for transferring? unable to spam plasma transfer? non-keystone?
This should hit abit more on the utility ability of the xenos, aswell work the teamwork angle.


No other ideas from me, unfortunaley, unless you count the idea of making my first idea in this post and combine it with a heavily-edited post that focuses on the discussions for individual mutators.

[MasterShakeEZ]

If it were 1/5th of normal, there'd be no point. I definitely wouldn't bother with it anymore, personally. Nerfing it to uselessness is the wrong approach. (although I am absolutely not against just removing it entirely...)

Here's an interesting take: Heal off weeds means you can't heal ON weeds anymore.

Now there's a pretty significant tradeoff - you'd have to seriously consider if you want to play that way, and it completely changes how you play. It won't be an 'always take this' upgrade, and it comes with some severe tradeoffs, like - if you get hurt, friendly xenos are going to pull you onto weeds and you're going to die.

But at the same time, it doesn't strictly weaken the benefit of healing off weeds. You'll still be a much better lonewolf skirmisher who don't need no hive.

Why would you pay points for can heal off weeds but not on. Its not even worth taking for free. The only time healing off weeds is good is on the offensive. If your hive is on the defensive you are literally useless cause you are fighting on weeds.

[Madventurer]

If it were 1/5th of normal, there'd be no point. I definitely wouldn't bother with it anymore, personally. Nerfing it to uselessness is the wrong approach. (although I am absolutely not against just removing it entirely...)

Here's an interesting take: Heal off weeds means you can't heal ON weeds anymore.

Now there's a pretty significant tradeoff - you'd have to seriously consider if you want to play that way, and it completely changes how you play. It won't be an 'always take this' upgrade, and it comes with some severe tradeoffs, like - if you get hurt, friendly xenos are going to pull you onto weeds and you're going to die.

But at the same time, it doesn't strictly weaken the benefit of healing off weeds. You'll still be a much better lonewolf skirmisher who don't need no hive.

Of course the 1/5th is merely a suggestion to point it towards something more reasonable. Even 2/5th or 1/2 would be quite decent.

[CABAL]

Why would you pay points for can heal off weeds but not on. Its not even worth taking for free. The only time healing off weeds is good is on the offensive. If your hive is on the defensive you are literally useless cause you are fighting on weeds.

This is called a "sidegrade". You are better in some situations you would be otherwise weaker, but you are weaker in some situations you would be usually better.
"Variation" doesn't mean more buffs. "Variation" means "alternative", but not "better alternative overall".

[MasterShakeEZ]

This is called a "sidegrade". You are better in some situations you would be otherwise weaker, but you are weaker in some situations you would be usually better.
"Variation" doesn't mean more buffs. "Variation" means "alternative", but not "better alternative overall".

its not a sidegrade when one is completely inferior though like I pointed out.

[CABAL]

its not a sidegrade when one is completely inferior though like I pointed out.

It's superior on total offence/behind enemy lines where you don't have and don't want to have weeds (becouse marines are more likey to be ready for ambush when there are weeds nearby), but inferior on defence/frontlines with weeds.
For you it's just inferior, for someone it could be situational and for someone it could be superior. Everyone is right about it, becouse good sidegrades can't be easly described as better, or worse overall.

S I D E G R A D E = Better in one situation, worse in other in comparsion to "Stock" (without mutators at all).

[MasterShakeEZ]

It's superior on total offence/behind enemy lines where you don't have and don't want to have weeds (becouse marines are more likey to be ready for ambush when there are weeds nearby), but inferior on defence/frontlines with weeds.
For you it's just inferior, for someone it could be situational and for someone it could be superior. Everyone is right about it, becouse good sidegrades can't be easly described as better, or worse overall.

S I D E G R A D E = Better in one situation, worse in other in comparsion to "Stock" (without mutators at all).

No its inferior because its completely useless on weeds which any kind of defending the hive would be entirely on weeds. You are literally completely useless as in cannot do a single fucking thing. There is no way in fuck anyone would take that.

[Madventurer]

No its inferior because its completely useless on weeds which any kind of defending the hive would be entirely on weeds. You are literally completely useless as in cannot do a single fucking thing. There is no way in fuck anyone would take that.

Completely useless is exaggeration, but there's a certain point there:

Weeds cannot be removed and the hive in general spreads them, so not being able to heal on weeds would be significant disadvantage for hive defenses.
Not that it would be highly needed for harassing xenos, which does allow for quite a bit of min-maxing...

[Chocolate_bickie]

S I D E G R A D E = Better in one situation, worse in other in comparison to "Stock" (without mutators at all).

CABAL, if it's worse than the stock then there is no point in having it.

Lets take an example of a good side grade. The angled grip.

The angled grip provides a wide set of slight buffs. It's downsides only manifest if held one handed, apart from increased weapon size, which only really applies to if you plan to take one in a scabbard.

Yet despite this your idea of a side grade is a mutation so useless it might as well not exist.

Here's a better idea, heal off weeds but heal at an overall slower rate. Now it's great off weeds but worse on weeds. That is a side grade.

[CABAL]

No its inferior because its completely useless on weeds which any kind of defending the hive would be entirely on weeds. You are literally completely useless as in cannot do a single fucking thing. There is no way in fuck anyone would take that.

Lets go with this logic: Armor mutator is inferior to health mutator and nobody besides Rav/Queen should take it, becouse fire ignores any armor, so it's useless. Doesn't matter that rest of marines uses bullets, or explosives, in the situation of marine using flamer you are useless as alien with armor so nobody should take it.

Right?

I know who could use that kind of "off-weed" healing mutator: Lurker/runner. Those two are already designed mainly to harass small groups of marines behind their lines, where weeds are not existant.

Admit, just admit you love the idea of straight boosts and you hate when something isn't just making you better in any kind of situation.

CABAL, if it's worse than the stock then there is no point in having it.

Lets take an example of a good side grade. The angled grip.

The angled grip provides a wide set of slight buffs. It's downsides only manifest if held one handed, apart from increased weapon size, which only really applies to if you plan to take one in a scabbard.

Yet despite this your idea of a side grade is a mutation so useless it might as well not exist.

Here's a better idea, heal off weeds but heal at an overall slower rate. Now it's great off weeds but worse on weeds. That is a side grade.

Attachements are bad example of sidegrades, becouse they are mostly upgrades with minor downsides.
Stocks are in a good spot. You are moving slower (and we know that speed is important), but you are more accurate, less spread etc.

As a runner I would totally take "extreme sidegraded off-weed healing". Runner is the worst caste to defend hive, but it fits perfectly at running around on marine's turf.

It's not worse than stock, it's worse in situation where you have to fight on weeds, but better where you have to fight without them. What is so hard to understand?
What you proposed is simply "soft off-weed healing mutator", but without any risks. Beno with that mutator just heals slower, but heals everywhere = pointless, becouse its downside is easly countered by recovery pheromones.
Point of this mutator is to fight where you have adventage - off weeds.
It's not best mutator for Rav, not the best for drone, not the best for boiler, but good for runner/lurker and even sentinel/spitter.
Thanks to that mutator your playstyle would have to change, to fit this. Wasn't that the point of mutators? To change playstyle? Or maybe straight boosts in every situation is considered a "variation" by beno mains?