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View Poll Results: is the dev team doing a good job?

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  • No

    23 44.23%
  • Yes

    15 28.85%
  • Can they just fucking get their routers unplugged?

    8 15.38%
  • They're the second coming of valve

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Thread: is the dev team doing a good job?

  1. #21
    Senior Member
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    When issues are not addressed for 2+ years then they become more noticeable Don. They also begin to increasingly adversely affect other things.

    Rather than shout down people who are trying to post reasoned statements, why not out forward what you believe drives RP please Don? What would you further to develop the RP aspect? Or would you simply not bother?

    For the record I agree with all of Seer's points. RO, Medical and stubs all need some attention.

  2. #22
    Moderator Warfan1815's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    So same as 2018 CM.



    So same as 2018 CM.



    So same as 2018 CM.

    People sure love to complain about the dev direction and how it kills RP but it was never a game that was generally developed for that past the initial phase. Want an example?

    MOBA xenos are brought up a lot. That devs made the game like a moba. You know what was added in late 2018, which is still considered the golden age of CM?

    Mutators.

    SS13 in general was never designed as roleplaying game, it's something people brought in on their own. Hell, you could make an argument about round length but even back then rounds were only extended by first contact rules and shitty ass stalemates.

    It's just so fucking tiring to read these endless, pointless discussions, driven by people who don't know what drives RP in SS13, people who blame everything on others and simply choose to entrench themselves in their mindset. It's the equivalent of playing dnd, NOT roleplaying and blaming the system/GM. Entitled and ignorant. And as a sidenote, I think both staff and the players are more to blame here than the devs.


    But instead of having yet another useless forum thread full of shitflinging, how about the people who feel opinionated on this topic propose how devs could encourage RP? Save for round time obviously.
    Here's the issue. And I think the pinnacle issue here. First of all, development team, in my personal opinion. Have been sticking their fingers in their ears singing "lalalalala" as they steal everything for the sake of what they prefer. And so, any movements against the grain would be incredibly apathetic'd. Now, I'm not saying they're bad. Just they do have the my way or highway approach, in my humble opinion

    Second of all. It's not on the bearer of the criticism to offer up a way to change. Unless they want to,

    And lastly of all. Roleplay is affected by development because roleplay is affected by gameplay. For example, tech webs. I personally don't want IO's destroyed. But if it goes ahead... What happens? The end of that gameplay, no more roleplay about IO. No more roleplay over concern and worry about defcon. Instead you have these KOTH points. Need I say more.

    I still think it could be advantageous mechanically. And the development team is still a lovely bunch, but ground roleplay will be dead and buried by 2021
    "Come on chaps! Why just dust off the OB flames it'll create. Nothing the USCM can't handle!"
    Currently playing as a sublimely gentlemanly British chap: Warris 'Haig' Fernsby

  3. #23
    Whitelisted Captain Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausrine View Post
    Rather than shout down people who are trying to post reasoned statements, why not out forward what you believe drives RP please Don?
    1. Metagroups

    2. Conflict

    3. Flexible situations and settings.

    This applies to all of SS13, not just cm. Metagroups of old are mostly dead, and they were the primary source of rp back in the day. Conflict was slowly driven out by staff. As for 3, I'm mostly talking about things like bay explo or aurora events.

    To put it simply, back in the day we had roleplay because people actually wanted it and actually roleplayed. Some things can be changed by devs and some by staff but as long as people remain entitled and continue blaming everyone but themselves, nothing will change.

    I also don't see how expanding shipside gameplay contributes to RP but ok.

  4. #24
    Whitelisted Captain Don's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warfan1815 View Post
    And lastly of all. Roleplay is affected by development because roleplay is affected by gameplay. For example, tech webs. I personally don't want IO's destroyed. But if it goes ahead... What happens? The end of that gameplay, no more roleplay about IO. No more roleplay over concern and worry about defcon. Instead you have these KOTH points. Need I say more.
    How can you be sure techwebs will not be as rp friendly as defcon was without having played it first? How does a role that roams alone and probably dies provide more interaction than a role that sticks with the squad.

    Now, I'm not saying defcon was inherently bad from a player interaction standpoint. Trying to rally people to grab intel, increase the level and try to turn the game around was cool. But it's not like techwebs don't have similar potential. Control points are gamey yes, but if anything, there's a chance that squad atmosphere will benefit from it, which is drastically needed.

  5. #25
    Whitelisted Predator
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    from what i've heard two devs are working on techwebs, a major part of the game.

    see an issue there because I do
    i play delta sl sometimes





    delta guy

  6. #26
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Yeah except in 2018 it was forgivable, the gameplay had not been sank into TDM hell by updates quite as much, not as much base code removed and there wasn't talk of sinking the game even further into playstyles not fit for the engine nor the game's stated goal. 2018 gave us what ? IOs and Mutators?, IOs had at least the potential of RP at that time since the role hadn't been relegated to mindlessness yet and there was the expectation of making the role more profound than just "grab these and run back to the ship". Mutators ? Barely did anything to impact gameplay to be honest, only a couple were ever worth taking and most xenos preferred to remain base because a lot of mutators were basically hard debuffs for very situational advantages.

    Saying SS13 not being a roleplaying game is straight up dumb IMO but let's ignore the obvious for a second and preted you're right and it's not actually designed to be an RP game, you know what it's even less fit for? skill-based action PvP gameplay; and that's EXACTLY where current dev team seems to want to take us with every update.

    As other people have stated the PFC and the Tier 3 have been made the be-all end-all of the game, everything revolves around the Tier 3 and the PFC, every update and every OOC rule is thought so as to not to disturb or even affect PFCs clicking on xenomorph sprites, and that makes other roles dull as fuck,

    Medbay? empty for 70% of the game until you have to revive 15 dead marines at the same time after evacuation and the xenos crash midway trough heart surgery, kill you and facehug your patient.

    Command? just there so that PFCs can pretend they're not metagaming their way into the hive and sometimes deploying with their command snowflake gear (which they're totally not supposed to do unless the round goes for a certain amount of time which it never does anymore) once they get bored of copy pasting "Stay with your SL" enough times in Squad Comms

    Engineering? There to be arrested by MPs and to go SSD as CE because there's nothing to do

    Requisitions? Button and chair simulator 2020

    Corporate Liaison? Paperweight Simulator 2017 Remaster

    Military Police? "Let's see how long we have to aggro someone to turn breaking a window into a sedition perma-brig sentence": Nothing to do help me im bored.

  7. #27
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    How can you be sure techwebs will not be as rp friendly as defcon was without having played it first? How does a role that roams alone and probably dies provide more interaction than a role that sticks with the squad.
    Because the squad is made up of people who, gameplay-wise, could not give less of a shit about roleplay, both their role and the game-pace itself heavily discourage talking or doing anything but clicking on xenomorph sprites. If you sit there talking or roleplaying with the techweb you're objectively not doing your job at best and being a liability to your squad at worst.

    The problem remains the same, the hyper focus on TDM gameplay and the lack of mechanics that support RP.
    Last edited by SilentMountain; 09-29-2020 at 06:22 PM.

  8. #28
    Dev Team Foolosopher's Avatar
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    I agree with Don. SS13 was not developed with RP in mind. However, CM DOES create RP (way less nowadays, but still does) by itself. Not for the good reasons, however.

    Charlie breakfast, old delta, bravo fobbit culture, crazy ROs, crazy medbay: these are some examples of RP that people remember fondly. However, why did they even begin to exist? Certainly it wasn't a design decision: ROs having absolute power over supply distribution and medbay having 20+ patients on average was fun for these departments, but not for the marines, and squad culture was entirely player developed and based on players knowing each other after many rounds played together. Not even a committee of 16 Fewehs could plan such "fun".

    IMO, most of this RP ended up existing as a consequence of most features of old being shit. Why did researchers deploy / beg for xeno eggs? Boring role. Why did some players actively try to come up with strategies to legally metarush maps, specially Big Red and Prison? Shitty stalemates. Why did MTs build bars? Reactor duty was even worse than research. And with more moderation on these "RP practices", all that was left were the incomplete features that said practices were trying to fill in for, thus giving the impression that the game itself was designed better back then.

    In the end, the only thing I can say that we, the current devs, might have done wrong is stuff like OTs, tank and DEFCON, but that's my personal opinion. Aside from that, all the issues that people point out now have existed for the longest time. What we can do at the moment is try to fix these issues that have existed for years (most, but not all, involving shipside) and come up with something that isn't total crap that relies on admin intervention and player creativity (not to use the A word) to "work out".

    And that's not an easy task; I can say that because I'm currently working on a medbay rework.

    P.S: Forgot to point out that old RP also existed because we had the right people at the right time, people that were willing to RP the game's issues away. It's obvious that some of the new players are not as willing, given the reasons why they discovered CM (you know what I'm talking about), but you can't always count on pure luck to fix a game
    Last edited by Foolosopher; 09-29-2020 at 06:49 PM. Reason: P.S.

  9. #29
    Senior Member Pigeon's Avatar
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    They need checkpoints to be better integrated then just 'hold this mineral patch while are SCVs--, I mean squad engineers, gather minerals'. Something like controlling rooms with terminals that have data you need to convince WY to give you more goodies is a more fun and cool then fighting for some gas spot.

    Hell could go further and say alien defcon should be based on getting captures and a trickle for controlling those rooms and marines main goal is fight for these rooms, which could be random, and get the intel to convivence WY to give you the nice stuff.


    The problem with RP and devs is just that stuff is just too hamfisted at times and needs to be integrated better at times. For shipside roles they are boring asf since medical gets no patients and rounds end too quick for OTs, research, or supply to be useful. Would talk about shipside command but it always existed to be a meme that only was bound by the will of mods...

    The real issue of RP though has been mods which have been too lax and too restrictive at the same time, to be blunt you need that perfect mix of funny grief and banhammer on 1eet speekers.

  10. #30
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foolosopher View Post
    SS13 was not developed with RP in mind.


    But it was developed with mass PvP action in mind right ?.

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