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Thread: On the upcoming CO/XO merge and its effect on current shipside RP

  1. #21
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    Regarding the playerbase vs mechanics its simple. Both sides are equaly wrong and right at the same time. Yes RP is about players and you can't ever interact with NRP or LRP players and enojoy the way it turns out. But at the same time there are mechanics now in the game that let you be a silend shooter without any character at all. I can jump in as a PFC and i can go through the whole round without saying a word to anyone. And thats a fault of the mechanics. You can't expect some players will RP if they have no reason for it. The most obvious example of this is req. Some time ago you had to get anything that was not basic gear from req. It forced you to at least talk to the other players. And if you were rude or refused to talk you were told to fuck off no fancy gear for you then. People started complaining about this and instead of promoting RP and talking to the req staff the devs decided to add squad req. Fine you still at least had to talk with your SL but even this is now considered too much work and annoyance. So from a forced player interaction that should bring players to at least RP a little bit you now have req dumping and even people breaking into other squad reqs to get their gear without standing in req line. Not to mention that you already have almost all special gear in your squad prep. Another example of a more recent change is giving the mess SGT his own hydroponic garden so he doesn't have to ask research to grow him something. Because it would be such a bother for RP role to have to RP with another shipside role in order to get some ingredents. And the same will now happen with the XO. Instead of a high ranking officer that can make things happen shipside we will have squat. And why? Because having the XO and CO talk it out and agree who is leading the op and who will handle the ship is too inconvinient.

    And then there are the rules and the other side of staff, the mods and admins. You cannot expect people to follow RP standards when there is zero consequence for breaking them. For example i am forbiden to give out tacshotties to marines asking for them or as a reward while playing XO. Should i break that the mods will soon be all over my ass. But should a marine barge into CIC. Take what he needs and leave all i get from mods as a reply is that its IC issue. And yes it is IC issue but how am i supposed to jail the marine for theft when by the time MPs get there he is on the ground where MPs can't follow. Then there are briefings. One of the best oportunities to add some RP has been turned into a generic 'Alright here are your orders. Ok. Bye' and thats not because the people giving the briefing don't want to do it anymore. It's because if i were to make a 10 or 15 minute briefing the marines would collectively riot. And instead of the admins having my back i would most certainly get in trouble for griefing or whatever. In my opinion the MRP ,as in act at least like a reasonable human in your position would, standard should be enforced way harder. Would the number of players decrease? Yes. Would that be a good thing? Also yes. Are there a lot of players who feel entitled and toxic? Get rid of them then. Nobody likes a player who is going on a rant after getting banned when he did the same thing he was warned about 2 times in a row.

    So yes, while its true that RP is mostly about players, unless the devs stop removing every forced player interaction instead of adding more. And stop implementing mechanics that go directly against roleplay it will be harder and harder to get people (especialy new players who don't even know what the game is about yet) to at least try and roleplay. And unless the admins and mods start enforcing at least the medium level of roleplay the number of LRP and NRP players will keep rising. And as was said previously, you can't RP with people who will outright laugh at your face in-game for trying to RP.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fortelian View Post
    Ok but how come we're fusing CO and XO? I still haven't been given a clear answer to that, and if I have, then I forgot it.
    The reson we have been given in town hall is that its because the dev team decided it would be best to have one person in charge of the new techweb system on each side. So Xenos will have the Queen and marines will have the commander who will either be XO or CO.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawMullet View Post
    Then I'm not sure where you're getting that. I've seen plenty of whitelisted players openly state they dislike roleplaying, but none who say "I don't roleplay as my whitelisted role."
    That's a pretty weird way for them to say I'm here only for the job-slot and don't care about the requirements I'm expected to uphold.

    But let's be realistic here, you're part of the problem and a perfect example of RP Standards degradation.
    Just because more kids have access to the kiddie pool now that standards are lowered, doesn't equate to a better system as it's only a matter of time before that pool is shat in so much it's ruined.
    My gripe with the council system isn't who they let in, but rather the complete lack of enforcement, maintenance and "Lack of care" those appointed to the whitelist show for the positions.



    What's really polarizing and pretty much destroys your credibility is Snooper pretty much instantly outlining exactly what my opinion of the current Whitelist was without me even stating any of it.
    So if I can see these problems (with very little playtime) and a fellow Council Member can see these problems, then why can't you.
    Or, if you are aware of these problems and admit to seeing fellow whitelisted players stating they "Don't care about RP", why are you not taking action to remove these players from "High-RP Positions"?
    Last edited by Fewher; 10-02-2020 at 06:27 AM.

  4. #24
    Whitelisted Captain Don's Avatar
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    CO lost its identity.

    It was introduced as a way of preventing brand new players of fucking the round up, but we're getting timelocks soon so that won't be necessary.

    What CO became later, was basically an optional antag role. Powertrip, piss the marines off, cause a mutiny. This kind of thing was slowly driven out and now there's just...nothing. Some people pretend like COs are more capable or something but this has never been true, whitelistees have always been at the very best, average in terms of RP and game knowledge compared to the average player from the time they got their whitelist.

    As it stands, the only reason for a player to apply for CO, is to not have to have your XO round fucked up by someone. In a 6 man CIC, XO is the one that loses the most and forcing a player to apply for a WL just so that they can have fun is exorbitantly fucking stupid.

    Personally I was in favour of turning CO into an RP role with little impact on the round but people hated that.

  5. #25
    Predator Council Member ChainsawMullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fewher View Post
    That's a pretty weird way for them to say I'm here only for the job-slot and don't care about the requirements I'm expected to uphold.

    But let's be realistic here, you're part of the problem and a perfect example of RP Standards degradation.
    Just because more kids have access to the kiddie pool now that standards are lowered, doesn't equate to a better system as it's only a matter of time before that pool is shat in so much it's ruined.
    My gripe with the council system isn't who they let in, but rather the complete lack of enforcement, maintenance and "Lack of care" those appointed to the whitelist show for the positions.



    What's really polarizing and pretty much destroys your credibility is Snooper pretty much instantly outlining exactly what my opinion of the current Whitelist was without me even stating any of it.
    So if I can see these problems (with very little playtime) and a fellow Council Member can see these problems, then why can't you.
    Or, if you are aware of these problems and admit to seeing fellow whitelisted players stating they "Don't care about RP", why are you not taking action to remove these players from "High-RP Positions"?
    Hmm, why am I not removing players who dislike RP, just because they dislike RP? Maybe because they still uphold the fucking standards as the whitelisted role.

    I'm not going to have someone removed from Predator just because they said "big chungus" as a PFC. Hell, most people don't even actually go against roleplay standards, they just dislike the standards and the forced RP, because none of it is natural.

    Get real, man.

    RP standards have degraded because the players have chosen they want less standards, and staff can't keep up with it. Nobody ahelps when someone is LRP, because nobody cares, or they find the LRP fun. Since nobody's ahelping, and the staff team is hemmorhaging mods so fast you see a different 5 mods every month (because the last 5 retired), this has led to the overall standards being taken out back and shot.

    I don't see how this makes me part of the problem, considering Predator standards are still being upheld. In fact, even Snooper pointed out the problem barely extends to Predators, so I don't see where you're getting this from.


    Gigabeast ChainsawMullet seen dodging discord bans that would result in whitelist suspensions.



    Who the fuck does this guy play????

  6. #26
    Community Manager ThesoldierLLJK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fewher View Post
    But let's be realistic here, you're part of the problem and a perfect example of RP Standards degradation.
    Just because more kids have access to the kiddie pool now that standards are lowered, doesn't equate to a better system as it's only a matter of time before that pool is shat in so much it's ruined.
    My gripe with the council system isn't who they let in, but rather the complete lack of enforcement, maintenance and "Lack of care" those appointed to the whitelist show for the positions.

    I've been working with some form of the councils for almost two years now since Emerald started the system. I can tell you that the councils don't fuck around when it comes to Whitelisted players going against standards in their WL roles. I would say the highest standards of a whitelist player group has always been the Synths. I've seen times when Jakkk wanted to give a synth a two week suspension for a typo, and I never see synths act with any bad RP. Maybe sometimes Omicega goes off on Synths wearing silly outfits from the snowflake vendors and wants us to remove it. Most of the synth stuff people report is the god awful "What is combat synthing/What isn't combat synthing" when synth kills a xeno. I've seen the councils in action, and I'm a believer in the system. Players judging fellow players instead of the alternative is trial mod bwoinks predator "Hey chief, why did you kill the IO?"

    If someone wants to play Private First Class John Smith and just shoot xenos, that's not an issue. We've seen a lot less of the CO Pyjama marines and other gimmicks as well.

    As far as this whole thing about CO/XO merge, it was simply from the developer team that like how the xenos need a queen, the marines will need an actual leader in the "techwebs" gameplay they're designing. This was the compromise to keep the CO whitelist, because many developers felt that a REQUIRED role, should not be locked behind a whitelist.
    Head Shitposter in Charge and Community Manager
    Insert timeline of being staff here | Discord: Thesoldier#3107 - Open to DMs

  7. #27
    Senior Member SilentMountain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChainsawMullet View Post
    RP standards have degraded because the players have chosen they want less standards, and staff can't keep up with it.
    BUT WHY, PRAY TELL ? WHY HAVE PLAYERS SUDDENLY DECIDED THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT RP AND WHY HAS THE GAME ATTRACTED A KIND OF PLAYER THAT WANTS TO WORDLESSLY CLICK ON XENO SPRITES?

    If you make game all about the TDM and the gameplay heavily discourages RP then yes, amazingly, the playerbase will feel no need to RP and you will attract more people that do not give a shit about RP.

    My god this is so dumb.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentMountain View Post
    BUT WHY, PRAY TELL ? WHY HAVE PLAYERS SUDDENLY DECIDED THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT RP AND WHY HAS THE GAME ATTRACTED A KIND OF PLAYER THAT WANTS TO WORDLESSLY CLICK ON XENO SPRITES?
    If you make game all about the TDM and the gameplay heavily discourages RP then yes, amazingly, the playerbase will feel no need to RP and you will attract more people that do not give a shit about RP.
    My god this is so dumb.
    It's extremely obvious that a high number of people in "RP" positions of authority, whitelisting and development have no idea how to maintain RP. It's why you see a common theme from individuals like him that "players" are to blame. It's such an incredibly high disconnect from basic game design that it's mind numbing they state these things with confidence.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThesoldierLLJK View Post
    Snip
    Good insight, thanks

  9. #29
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    I feel that one issue about the handling of how Techweb is suppose to operate, is that never before, has the Marine force ever required a player to login as either a Executive Officer or Commanding Officer.
    There have been many a lowpop round with which a CE or RO has had to become the aCO of the Marines, I have personally had to become an aCO twice as a Ensign PO, and once as a Lieutenant SO. At no point do the Marines ever require anything more than to decide who is in charge, and we have a Chain of Command written in stone detailing exactly who is.
    So what happens to the Techweb if the XO/CO suddenly dies or never joins a round?
    Why is the aCO, whom is entrusted with the full authority of the Battalion's Operations be mechanically locked out of seemingly vital support?
    Implementing a mechanical aCO system to prescribe access to the Techweb feature is infinitely more healthy then simply locking all of it behind the decisions of 1 player for the entire Round.
    Last edited by Skimmy2; 10-02-2020 at 07:45 PM.

  10. #30
    Predator Council Member ChainsawMullet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentMountain View Post
    BUT WHY, PRAY TELL ? WHY HAVE PLAYERS SUDDENLY DECIDED THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT RP AND WHY HAS THE GAME ATTRACTED A KIND OF PLAYER THAT WANTS TO WORDLESSLY CLICK ON XENO SPRITES?

    If you make game all about the TDM and the gameplay heavily discourages RP then yes, amazingly, the playerbase will feel no need to RP and you will attract more people that do not give a shit about RP.

    My god this is so dumb.
    I'm just going to quote my initial post because I already talked about why.

    If RP isn't happening, devs can't make it happen. I don't know what's hard to understand about this.

    If anything, you should be blaming the lack of roleplay on idiotic and inconsistent standard enforcement. Synths, Predators, and COs are all expected to AT MINIMUM maintain MRP, and ideally maintain HRP. However this is completely impossible, because 95% of the server is enforced at an LRP standard, if not an NRP standard. You simply CANNOT have a HRP role interacting with an LRP role and expect there to be anything of substance in that interaction, because the HRP role can't acknowledge half the shit the LRP role is saying.

    All or nothing, NRP/LRP/MRP/HRP. I don't give a fuck which is chosen. It's all or nothing, you cannot inconsistently enforce roleplay standards just because 1 person has a quirky role and another doesn't.

    Don't even get me started on xenos, they are explicitly NRP and any player who unironically talks like a baby as xeno is only making that more obvious.

    "Mommy talls", "Mommy milk!", "Mommy the bird is coming!"

    Mommy go fuck yourself.

    Edit - In case it's not obvious, that last part is not directed at anybody in particular.


    Gigabeast ChainsawMullet seen dodging discord bans that would result in whitelist suspensions.



    Who the fuck does this guy play????

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