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Thread: Combat stims

  1. #1
    Junior Member Copper Wilson's Avatar
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    Combat stims

    Hey guys so this question of mine comes from something that happened on Big Red a few days ago. In short there were 2 similar combat stims going around, and quite a few marines were ODing from them. This is not a thread I have started to point blame, but to better understand how combat stims are made, labled and passed along to marines. If from our talk here we find flaws the admins can see if SOP needs to be changed, or any other thing of the like. This is not just for RP reason I ask but the guys who ODed to my knowledge also were perma dead(this part i might be wrong so correct me if I am).
    Cheers, Copper.

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    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    There were no flaws, some retard grieffer was forcefeeding pills with stims to every marine, if you already took one, you OD and perma.
    REDEMPTION

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    Senior Member Fortelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    There were no flaws, some retard grieffer was forcefeeding pills with stims to every marine, if you already took one, you OD and perma.
    They weren't a griefer, they were a medic main who didn't entirely understand the pills from what I read in the report. It was the same chemical, soporific, but two different variations. Apparently, they stack for OD, and one pill was messed up, so it would OD if you ate just one.
    Salvador Kepplinger - President of Andorra
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    Junior Member Copper Wilson's Avatar
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    I cant speak for all but I have been playing medic a bit more and wanted to learn about the chems medbay makes and use, so I have a better understanding when I start to work my way as a researcher. What happened on Big Red, after talking to some people, and having seen the effects on the front lines as a medic that round made me stop and think. Why did the CMO approve both pills to be passed out? Could the pill not have been labeled better? Why did I see piles of both stim pills on the ground on the AO? Things like this are my bigger question I would like a better understanding to.
    Cheers, Copper.

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    Senior Member Fortelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Copper Wilson View Post
    I cant speak for all but I have been playing medic a bit more and wanted to learn about the chems medbay makes and use, so I have a better understanding when I start to work my way as a researcher. What happened on Big Red, after talking to some people, and having seen the effects on the front lines as a medic that round made me stop and think. Why did the CMO approve both pills to be passed out? Could the pill not have been labeled better? Why did I see piles of both stim pills on the ground on the AO? Things like this are my bigger question I would like a better understanding to.
    No one really asks the CMO for permission to distribute pills, at least from my experience. That's a SOP thing, and no one listens to it. Also, I don't know what the pills were labeled, but they were the same chem, just two variations. The distributors were unaware that that would result in an OD from what I read, and one of the pills was simply made poorly.
    Salvador Kepplinger - President of Andorra
    LOV3 - The friendly Bean.

    "The world is quiet here." -- Salvador Kepplinger

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  6. #6
    Junior Member Copper Wilson's Avatar
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    So in the future how could this be prevented? Should something akin to test the combat stims on monkeys or clone marine be done? What else can be done? The only other thing I can think of outside of the ship side of things is the pills themselves should not have been dumped into pills on the ground. Only a handful of people can examine the pills and then with all the stuff on the ground we can miss them easy.
    Cheers, Copper.

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    -Feeling a bit sorry-

    Shit, Sorry about that, I was the person who made the pills, I ?think? I first deployed some of my "beginnner strength" modded hyperzine pills first, and then -wanting to be adventurous- choose to later deploy some Modded synaptazine (with Move speed 5, stun recovery 4) and some modded soporofic for its Level 10 painstop. (except the second generation stim had Soporofic and Synaptazine, so the OD would be on the mutually present DEXP)

    My biggest mistake was not adding an extra label "Don't mix" in addition to my "STRONGSTIM -ONLY 1-" to help reduce the amount of ODs, and I also remember screwing up the turing programming (and having to deal with a glitch where I couldn't produce chloral hydrate as I'd expect), where the amount wasn't a clean-cut amount (I got like 60 synaptazine and 45 soporofic and 60 dexP) so the production process was a messy thing, which may have produced that one lethal pill (which would OD you on the drug).
    I try to mitigate the chance of OD by filling a bottle in preset amounts (like 4 pills usually) so if I see an amount of pills not divisible by that amount, I know to investigate.
    Even then I remember shift+left clicking on the pills individually to find any mistakes -I didn't find any- but still, I might have done it (sorry).
    There was also a problem with the synaptazine+soporific combo; Both of those drugs have a duration of X2, but I added an equal amount of DEXP to it, resulting in pills that had 15 Synatpazine, 15 Soporific, 15 DexP, but since the Synaptiazine and Sporofic have a duration of X2, they'd persist in the body when the DexP would metabolize, so maybe there was a marine with some oxygen damage from debibbed and took one of the stims to make that go away, but when the low-oxy symptoms returned, he took another -assuming the dangerous stims have also metabolized- hoping to avoid the oxy damage and then ODed on them.

    There could also be confusion elsewhere, a medic might have thought that the different variations of the soporific, hyperzine, or synatpazine would stay separate and not combine (which would OD)? There coulda been a griefer, force-feeding stims. (as CABAL said), There coulda been a nooby medic who was force-feeding this drug to marines hoping to keep them "pumped up" when the stims AUGHT to only be administered by the user -like those oxycodone in helmets- since it lets them know they're "under it's effect". (actually a nooby medic "pumping up" marines with a pill that ONLY should be taken by the user also seems very plausible to me)
    There was a single pill that was made wrong (which I'll accept).

    But perhaps the biggest contributor as to why this happened was firstly -since it was well within my control- choosing to be adventurous and going with a higher-quality stim with essentially stronger oxycodone via soporofic added in. (I hope that admission doesn't send me to hell)
    But another BIG contributor is the RUSH a good researcher has to put up with (in addition to being tired due to night-time lateness, and the lateness in the round), I have to accumulate the research credits (sometimes processing the vials myself), then I need to produce various vials of drug (usually sulfuric acid, sugar, hyperzine, synaptazine, unstable mutagen, ETC) scan those, then -using some turing dispensor trickery- produce a viable stim (which is a bit of an RNG-fest), and then prepare the non-chem-dispensor-friendly-reagents (I think it was welding fuel, nicotine, Peach souto?) which usually I'lll have to do myself since it seems everyone ignores my requests (or is too "zoned out" from being this late in the round), Then -The hardest part- I need to program the turing dispensor (and deal with any accompanying glitches) and I remember that round choosing not to use my notepad file (in addition to the irregularities of the task, like having the stims so it's "equal" with the dexP), and then I test-run the turing dispensor, 60% of the time I program it correctly the first time, 20% of the time there is a glitch that complicates the production process, (which happend this time) so that takes some time to iron out (which takes AWHILE to learn), Then I have to label each pills painstakingly -usually while walking to the dropship- and dumping them. (and this description of steps doesn't describe the tiny sub-steps needed, ESPECIALLY with the programming)

    So Yeah, that eats up ALOT of time, and how ususally FOB is under attack by this time (or something nearly as urgent), so knowing that urgency, I tend to internalize a mindset of "get it out before the marines lose planetside" and with such a mindset I'll sometimes just accept whatever bad programming of the turing dispensor and just deal with a messier, moderately-less-effficient production process if it means I can deploy at least SOME of those pills. In the event of such an error (which happens about 40% of the time), I'll only "refine" the process only AFTER I believe I've made a "differance" (by my pills) since deploying SOME pills before evac is called is better then being even later since if I rush out the pills, and if they DO make a difference, they buy me some time (plus it just sucks to feel like you didn't have in impact/felt personally important (I guess I got entitled, the CT's don't have such feelings)).

    Also, much of the reason why CMO is rarely referred is partly due to that rush, if I can't do it fast, I won't make a difference, and even if the CMO were involved, it would have to be informal and quick, to something of the effect of
    Researcher: "Hey I want to deploy this stim, I tested it on myself." (which is something I personally do) (I think I was the CMO that round)
    CMO: "Yeah, go ahead, you have permission to deploy that stim."
    Another factor is that it's HARD to resist something coming to your benefit if it's against SOP, when I deploy drugs as I do, it's a kind of weird implicit "bribe" to the CMO (and I guess everyone) with the reward being the marines might win planetside (I probably weakened RP standards by doing this repeatedly), so why should they hamper something that's essentially going to reward them?
    You think of testing as something that actually happens, well it does -but HARDLY in a way you'd expect-, I essentially take a pill, and if I don't suffer horrible side-effects, it gets deployed.

    Also -to brag a bit- I think the composition of the synaptazine was
    Welding Fuel
    Chloral Hydrate
    Sodium?

    I think the composition of the Soporofic was
    Peach Souto
    Ryetalyn?
    Radium?

    Thinking about this, This is probably the ONLY -or perhaps the first- Commentary of a high-end powergaming researcher on this forum. Since a good 80-95% (I'm in a pessimistic mood to assume so few are helping the marines) of the other researchers play oddly passively, or "for fun". While I'm here cranking out whatever drugs are wanted to help the marines win.

    Thinking about it, Much of the reason why so few researchers do what I do is that to get to my point, you need to
    1. Have good knowledge -or a good notepad file- of the chemistry system
    2. Know "Turing dispenser trickery" for making a viable stim.
    3. Have a Tolerance for repetitive unchanging gameplay (making those pills/labeling/ETC)
    I'm Perhaps the ONLY researcher I know that has those traits (I guess playing those MMOs have trained me)

    -To Reinforce-
    Sorry about getting you (and others) killed by my stims.
    Last edited by anonymous14z; 11-12-2020 at 02:42 AM.

  8. #8
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    Its only griefing if marines are intentionally killed. If people mess up, that is just SS13, welcome to FF, incorrect coordinates miscommunications, etc its part of the game. You can have some in-round roleplay consequence but there should be no mod penalty.

  9. #9
    Junior Member Copper Wilson's Avatar
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    I fully know that things like this happen in SS13, yeah its all part of the game. The other big reason why I asked is because of RP reason. I think we all have seen the bigger push for less LRP. That being said I felt since this process would start in medbay there could/ would be more RP added to the process of making and passing out combat stims to marines. My line of thinking is IF this were the case this would lead to less perma deaths in the round from faulty combat stims, leading to less ahelp being made about something about something we can prevent in the future.
    anonymous14z I want to say thanks for helping me, and the rest of us see the steps you used to make the combat stims, and for taking responsibility too. I love the detail you gave on the process you used. It will be a great help to us all knowing about the turning machine, and the issues you were having with it.
    Cheers, Copper.

  10. #10
    Senior Member kooarbiter's Avatar
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    this is why i dont do chem









    I want off this sad ride, mister grim.

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