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Thread: Wulferion - CO guidelines

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    Wulferion - CO guidelines

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Rals

    Date of Incident
    November 27, 2020

    Your Character Name?
    Brett McMatherson

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Wulferion

    Accused Character Name
    Faerwald Wulfe

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    Around 10:00 GMT-5

    What rule(s) were broken:
    CO guidelines

    Description of the incident:
    Once I joined as CMP I have heard, that Alpha SL Garret 'Hammer' Steele ordered his squad to deconstruct Alpha squad REQ. I immediately told Alpha squad to not deconstruct Alpha REQ, however Alpha SL asked his squad once more to deconstruct Alpha REQ, his reasoning was that he does not want to dump it.

    SL was arrested, taken to brig and processed. CO Wulfe came to brig and started asking about reason of Alpha SL's arrest. At the end of conversation CO said, that he gave permission to Alpha SL to deconstruct Alpha REQ (Which was a lie and I suspected it due to the way, Alpha SL behaved during arrest), furthermore, CO told me to release Alpha SL and I complied with this order (Only after CO said, that Alpha SL's appeal was accepted, though). Later I sent one fax two times about it to get it resolved ICly, however, I did not receive any response hence why I am making this report.

    After round end, Wulferion confirmed, that he intentiolly accepted appeal of marine, who was guilty of a crime to evade pardon, since he believed, that I would find a reason to arrest Alpha SL and him after pardon. Technically, Wulferion comitted Jailbreak here.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    I do not have any ingame logs, however, there are discord logs of Wulferion admitting to do it. Our conversation started at 11:35, when I pinged him.

    How you would punish the accused:
    It is up to CO council

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    Alright let me say a few things about this. First off reading the report now you say that you ordered Alpha squad to not deconstruct the prep which is something you failed to mention while talking to me in the brig. You stated the charges being Aiding and Abetting (since he ordered it not did it himself) and Major Damage to Government Property (more than one rail) thus making it a case of Insubordination which quite frankly dramaticaly changes the situation.

    Before i go into more detail about why i did what i did, let me explain my point of view first:

    I was heading for a briefing when i heard a commotion on Alpha comms and SL asking for a pardon. I told the XO to carry on without me (he was leading the operation) and went into brig. There i met Brett and the Alpha SL being processed and timer started. I asked for the charges and for the CMP and SL to explain the situation to me. I was told the SL ordered his engineers to deconstruct the railings in their squad prep for materials to use on the ground but since he didn't ask permission first he was breaking ML. I am used to dealing with ML issues a lot as i play mainly CO and SEA. When it comes to this charge i first look on how the accused player behaves if he is agressive or rude toward the MP then i would let the matter in the hand of MPs, even add a DASO charge if needed. Seeing as the SL was cooperating and reasonable i decided the charge should be droped since there was no real harm done to anyone and having a SL missing the drop over some railing doesn't help anyone. Trouble was that the charge stated was MAJOR DtGP meaning i could not force NJP as i usually do. The obvious answer here was pardon but this opens me to facing charges as well should the SL do anything else. Having some experience with the kind of MPs as the CMP was playing (no offence) i realized this might become an issue later on, seeing as for example DASO has a very loose definition and is a favourite tool MPs use to BS their way into arresting someone i instead decided to make use of a kind of loophole in the ML. Seeing as the DtGP requres UNAUTHORIZED modifications and i as CO am able to authorize it by myself i told the CMP i gave the SL permission to do so in person. It was a lie yes but an unprovable one and it allowed me to basicaly pardon the SL without having to watch my back every time a CIC doors open. Saing that i gave him permission rendered the charge null and void and therefore i accepted the apeal for it and had it removed.

    This was my entire thought process during that apeal. Now i realize that i was lying and that apeal procedure should have been followed. I only did this move based on the fact that the CMP was showing the kind of behaviour i know from the past to be very dangerous for anyone else involved. If not for this fact i would simply announce a pardon and be done with the whole situation much faster. I realize that seeing as the charge was a major crime the CMP could not ignore it and i don't hold it against him in any way. If anything this is a problem with the ML itself which would be a subject for longer conversation which i will not go into here. The fact is i only used a loophole in the current ML that doesn't specify the authorization needs to be done via comms (and thus ICly provable if it was given or not as long as both parties agree). I learned later on discord that it is possible to fax HC and get voice logs checked and i know that OOC logs will show i lied but surely the things said in Say as in person should be exempt from this for sake of RP continuity. I basicaly did what a skilled lawyer would do to get the SL out without leaving me vulnerable to the CMP.

    In conclusion i did what i deemed was in best interest for all involved. CMP didn't have to ignore his duty and get into OOC trouble, SL got to deploy without needing to face a petty charge, Alpha squad got their leadership structure intact and I didn't have to fear the CMP looking for a way to jail me. Did i lie, yes i did. Did i break ML? Thats up to interpretation. Given that there is no way to ICly prove i lied there is no lawbreak to speak of. The only way i could be considered breaking ML in this situation is if you take into account OOC information (Which could only be shown after the round here in this report, which makes this situation a bit paradoxical.) In any case i believe myself to be in the right here as i strongly believe a degree of common sense should be applied when dealing with ML and not just zealously enforcing it in every situation. A lot of unforseen things can happen and ML doens't have answers for everything. Should i be deemed incorrect in my statements I will accept a punishment for it. I only ask that should this be the case then the ML or SOP should be updated to remove the loophole i used in case someone else finds the same. (Or it can stay in this case as it allows more tools to apply ML in a more liberal way)

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    Right, I was observing this round. After hearing Brett say he was going to fax HC I decided to watch the situation to see what was going on. While this means I missed the appeal itself, I did make a point of collecting a screenshot of the fax Brett sent and copied the text of the recording log he sent of the initial incident along after.

    One thing to note that I saw, which isn't mentioned in this report that I did see, however, was that the SEA asked the CO to allow sparring with riot gear. The CO approved this and then promptly went SSD in their office for about... Ten minutes, I'd say? This entire conversation happened in person in CIC and I know for certain it wasn't relayed to the MPs or CMP in any way. The only reason the CMP knew about the change was they caught the SEA and an MP getting riot gear out of the armory on code green. It also seemed to take a bit of prodding from the CMP for Wulfe to state that they changed SOP to do so and never really addressed the fact that the MPs were never informed of the SOP change. At the end of the conversation Brett did press the CO to officially announce the SOP change, but it still leaves roughly 10-15 minutes between the SOP change being done and the CMP being made aware of it by the CO. This also fits what Brett said above about taking a bit of prodding to get the CO to accept the appeal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FGRSentinel View Post
    Right, I was observing this round. After hearing Brett say he was going to fax HC I decided to watch the situation to see what was going on. While this means I missed the appeal itself, I did make a point of collecting a screenshot of the fax Brett sent and copied the text of the recording log he sent of the initial incident along after.

    One thing to note that I saw, which isn't mentioned in this report that I did see, however, was that the SEA asked the CO to allow sparring with riot gear. The CO approved this and then promptly went SSD in their office for about... Ten minutes, I'd say? This entire conversation happened in person in CIC and I know for certain it wasn't relayed to the MPs or CMP in any way. The only reason the CMP knew about the change was they caught the SEA and an MP getting riot gear out of the armory on code green. It also seemed to take a bit of prodding from the CMP for Wulfe to state that they changed SOP to do so and never really addressed the fact that the MPs were never informed of the SOP change. At the end of the conversation Brett did press the CO to officially announce the SOP change, but it still leaves roughly 10-15 minutes between the SOP change being done and the CMP being made aware of it by the CO. This also fits what Brett said above about taking a bit of prodding to get the CO to accept the appeal.
    I am at fault for this one. I had some IRL issues going on and thats why i needed to go SSD and generaly don't give full attention later for a bit more. I informed the XO about going SSD and i knew Karl had the situation handled. LOOC logs should confirm this. I did however announce the SOP change soon after i returned via shipside announcement. CMP reminded me over comms and i announced it right away.

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    Whitelisted Captain FGRSentinel's Avatar
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    I do believe I saw you LOOC say something about IRL stuff at the time now that I think about it and you told the XO you were going SSD, yeah. That bit there honestly slipped my mind. Thank you for reminding me.

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    As for the proding for me to accept the apeal. The CMP wanted to hear the phrase that I accept the apeal. And since i said that the charge is null i thought this was kind of implied. I did cite the exact sentence when requested a second time.

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    In regards to Insubordination. To be honest, I forgot about it and it would not change much, I believe. Insubordination was minor at most and it would not change his brig time.

    Small clarification for SOP situation: I have never seen SEA or MPs raking riot gear from armory, since I was writing fax in my office, however, as far as I remember, SEA notified me about it and I told SEA, that he should get CO to modify SOP in order to use riot gear for sparring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rals View Post
    In regards to Insubordination. To be honest, I forgot about it and it would not change much, I believe. Insubordination was minor at most and it would not change his brig time.

    Small clarification for SOP situation: I have never seen SEA or MPs raking riot gear from armory, since I was writing fax in my office, however, as far as I remember, SEA notified me about it and I told SEA, that he should get CO to modify SOP in order to use riot gear for sparring.
    It might not change much for you (or the timer) but it changes a lot for me as CO when i have to decide the actual guilt of the marine in question. There is a huge difference between deconstructing a few railings that nobody cares about and knowingly going against orders given by a commissioned officer. Had i known about the insubordination it would most likely change the verdict all together as i don't tolerate that kind of behaviour as CO. Since not you nor the SL mentioned anything about you ordering him to not deconstruct anything, from my point of view the situation looked very different. Without that information it seemed to me that you jailed the SL over just a few useless railings in which case i am of course bailing him out.

    It's my job as CO to ensure the round is going smoothly and everyone on the marine side is having fun, that certain standards pretending to RP are met and that the command structure is working as it should. Having a SL missing over a few stupid rails doesn't help anyone. It only annoys me, the whole alpha squad and the SL himself and serves no purpose what so ever, hence the reason i as CO am looking for a way to bail him out. (Pardons are made specificaly for this reason. I didn't use a pardon for reasons i specified in previous posts) On the other hand having a SL refusing to follow a lawful order given by a commissioned officer undermines the command structure of the ship and is something that should be punished to show that it will not be tolerated.

    So while it might have not seem like an important detail to you as CMP, especially when you are not actually thinking about the reasons certail laws and procedures exist but only following them to the letter, it could have changed the entire outcome of this incident.

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    Posting logs soon.

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    Round starts at [08:56:52]

    SL wants to deconstruct req but Chief MP doesn't want to.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Chief MP arrests the SL.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    CO goes to brig and lies to get the SL out.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Now going to the SEA.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    SEA asks the CO to announce the SOP change. CO says in LOOC he is/was busy.
    Spoiler Spoiler:

    Discord evidences (CST timezone):
    Spoiler Spoiler:
    Last edited by Bibiex; 11-30-2020 at 03:05 PM. Reason: added discord evidences

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