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Thread: Kael - Predator Honor Code

  1. #1
    Whitelisted Predator Survivor's Avatar
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    Kael - Predator Honor Code

    Player Report
    Your Byond ID?
    Dr. Lance

    Date of Incident
    December 13, 2020

    Your Character Name?
    Bryce Stafford

    Accused Byond Key(if known):
    Kael

    Accused Character Name
    Krah'Tolem

    Approximate time and date of the incident (Central US Time for fastest results)
    6pm EST

    What rule(s) were broken:
    Predator Honor Code

    Description of the incident:
    Let me preface this. While there are honor code violations (Several), the main point of this report isn't about the violations of the honor code but rather the violation of the spirit of the whitelist. Predators are supposed to be an RP role, and players are given these tools with the thought in mind that they will have the common sense to show self restraint. Unfortunately, all of this was thrown out of the window.

    I was a survivor on LV, we were held up at engineering. I decide to shoot the predators due to their presence near our base being an issue. (I'd rather not have xenos attracted to us because we've got 3 predators stationed outside watching). The predator runs away, immediately throwing two smartdisks at me while i'm alone and attempting to kite me with a combi stick while i'm using shotguns. The main issue here is the use of several smartdisks on one lone target. Smartdisks are a tool that was designed for group combat. They have an automated AI that takes all human error out of the equation of fighting a target. Even if you manage to "Kill" one of these simple mobs before it reaches you, the tick death will still give it a chance to hit you. Thankfully, I was prepared and managed to "kill" them while the predator ran away.

    I took the smartdisks with us into engineering as I didn't want them to be spam thrown at us constantly. The predator in question after several confrontations runs inside engineering. I decide to use my bootknife in this case to fight him. I stab the predator atleast 20 times, before they start trying to kite me using a combi stick. Again, this isn't a violation of the honor code. This is just pissing on the spirit of the whitelist. The predator player couldn't fight properly in melee combat, against a simple boot knife and instead tried to run 7 tiles away and kite me using their ranged options, which were not designed for situations like this, but rather fighting in groups. Eventually I bleed out from like 2 or 3 hits that hit me from the ranged weaponry.

    Fast forward far later into the round, I walk in on the same predator killing another marine once again using several smartdisks against a lone target. I start shooting them to make them leave, and they cloak. Suddenly, the predator starts throwing smartdisks at me in cloak. Additionally, the predator had two primary weapons, the other being a recovered glaive. It's against the honor code to have a second primary unless you are recovering it. The predator had several times throughout the entire round to drop off the glaive, but never did. Anyways, the predator tries to drag off the marine that they killed. (By they I mean their smartdisks that require 0 human effort). After a long chase around the corners of the map I manage to save the marine.

    Fast fast forward, i'm patrolling the roads again, and run into the same marine from earlier fighting the same predator. The predator runs into the jungle, which I follow. Immediately, they start trying to once again abuse the mechanics of the smartdisks. They threw two smartdisks on me, then start spam shoving me over. This is once again, violating the spirit of the whitelist. There's no "rules" that say that you obviously shouldn't tackle spam someone while there are smartdisks ontop of them. Thankfully, the other marine managed to chase them off, and I got out of the situation with only massive brute.

    We begin to chase the predator to LZ2, where they cloak, and almost unsurprisingly start hitting one of us while cloaked. We shoot them, they uncloak, and trigger SD.

    TLDR; Abused several mechanics built for group combat to try and cheese lone targets, one of which was in melee combat. Two primary weapons. Cloaked smartdisk throwing. Cloaked melee hitting. Tackle spamming while smartdisks are hovering over and shredding me. Several honor code violations, several violations of the spirit of the whitelist.

    Evidence (screenshots, logs, etc):
    I don't personally have any videos, but the marine in question with me said he recorded it in LOOC and would post on the report. There were also several witnesses in deadchat to each of the events that occurred.

    How you would punish the accused:
    Something rather than nothing.

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    Alright, while I was not the marine in question who said they would post a vid in LOOC, I was still however a ghost and saw the fight leading up to the death of the predator.

    I'd like to point out they said they cloak hit was a mistake they made while trying to trigger SD.

    Video leading up to Krah'Tolem's death.: https://streamable.com/ocyhta

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    Senior Member BIgboyyo's Avatar
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    I don't think being a dick to them in dchat was really appropriate lance but that's not the point. I was the synth Benedict who watched what happened, yes the predator used a bunch of smartdisks on them and was trying to kite them with the combi despite him using a literal boot-knife. I don't know about the cloak-hitting and two-primary thing as I wasn't present during all of their encounters.

    IMO we probably do need to add stuff to HC to prevent these things from happening, as it was pretty cringe.
    Nathon Stafford-Sunglasses wearing Delta L42 kiter man. Sometimes a Captain.
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    Senior Member BIgboyyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I don't think being a dick to them in dchat
    in looc*

    also forgot to add me and bryce had stolen some smartdisks if that changes anything
    Nathon Stafford-Sunglasses wearing Delta L42 kiter man. Sometimes a Captain.
    Benedict-Praiser of Jesus, healer of marines, killer of Queens.
    Kahn'Ikesh-Blooded Hunter and great grandson of Gor'don Ram-sey
    (pfp by Manezinho)
    medals:https://pastebin.com/xiCJLuhz
    Mapper since 12/29/2020
    Had dev role assasinated on 8/2/21


    Synth Councilor as of 2/5/21 along with Jakk, Frogzeke, Yukonsnow, and Flpls
    DM what#3954 for help with Synth Applications

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by GenericUsername View Post
    I don't think being a dick to them in dchat was really appropriate lance but that's not the point. I was the synth Benedict who watched what happened, yes the predator used a bunch of smartdisks on them and was trying to kite them with the combi despite him using a literal boot-knife. I don't know about the cloak-hitting and two-primary thing as I wasn't present during all of their encounters.

    IMO we probably do need to add stuff to HC to prevent these things from happening, as it was pretty cringe.
    True, I did go off in LOOC because it was unbelievable that they thought this behavior was appropriate to the whitelist. Maybe if I was using my standard method I would've been a little more lax about it, but I was using a bootknife and they were trying to kite me with a combi stick.

  6. #6
    Member ShepTI's Avatar
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    Was the marine in question with Survivor. Needless to say, besides the video evidence that Aidenzack1 posted that I can obviously attest being there/witnessing, it's worth noting that this predator has long since recovered the War Glaive of another predator that I had killed earlier, who I believe to be NekoSam(?). I was HPC'd the moment I killed said predator, and they dragged the body off to presumably SD it, so needless to say they played from that point on up until their death with two primary weapons (Around 15-20 minutes).

    While there are some legitimate obvious CONCRETE violations, such as carrying two primaries, a presumably accidental cloak hit on the LZ, and I believe an abuse of CQC 5 by pushing someone over whilst they are smart disked to death(?), there are far more "violations" of the spirit of the whitelist as a Yautja Hunter that are mentioned here. I can see the reason to report as a mere precedent even without breaks; as this behavior is something that isn't a hardline violation but rather a poor display of how someone should approach this whitelist role.
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  7. #7
    Senior Admin & Whitelist Overseer Fortelian's Avatar
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    I was a pred for a very short amount of time this round, but I saw a bit of what was reported. Survivor had shot the pred at first, but switched to his knives (they had a few different skirmishes from my memory) knife was used for a bit, so pred started throwing combi. They didn't try to claim a trophy or anything or take survivor's body so I respected that on their part, they were just after the smart discs I believe. That was when I was a ghost. I joined as pred and decided to come check things out, and I had to leave soon, so I decided that I was gonna find the strongest person I could, then fight them at the greatest disadvantage to myself. So, I walk into engineering, and I make sure my armor is off. Survivor has a hefty amount of broken bones, and some organ damage so Benedict gives him surgery (surv synth). Marines are planetside at this point now, but surprisingly none shot at me so that's nice. Anyways, I drag survivor looking for a place to fight him, and eventually we just head back to engineering. We have a fight, my fists against his axe, he switches to knife for some time, but then I force him to use my clan sword to fight me. I die, and I think the other preds grabbed my body so that's all nice.

    Now a lot of what I said is a lot of filling in gaps of the round, but I think that main issue with this round was the predator kiting a guy who was stabbing them. While it's not technically illegal, a better option would be to just melee them or die trying, since, like survivor said, this is a roleplaying role.
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  8. #8
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    I was observing this since basically the start, when I heard from an observer the survivors were attacking predators.

    I watched Dr. Lance fight, or rather try to fight Krah-Tolem, and another predator who I don't remember.

    Right from the get go, Krah was spamming hunting traps all over while Dr. Lance was trying to chase him and fight, and he just stared at Lance 1 tile away while he and Benedict were removing the traps, which happened either twice or thrice. This is clearly fine and allowed in honor code, but it paints a picture especially with the following context.

    Some time after, Dr. Lance and Tolem were fighting inside LV engineering, Lance knifing Tolem several times with a simple marine bayonet. During this time, Tolem was repeatedly throwing the combi-stick from range, hitting Lance even after he managed to break a bone, I think either chest, groin or leg, considering the slowdown. This meant Lance had no way to close the gap, slowly limping towards Tolem while the latter spammed combistick at him, even after breaking bones. Again, allowed, but it paints a picture.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...36/unknown.png

    After this, Lance eventually collapses into deepcrit, after which Benedict nurses him back to health while at this point three Predators were standing inside engineering, waiting for something to happen, which was a bit silly and amusing.

    Lance is healed back, with probably more than one fracture, and continues the fight, with a bayonet, hitting Tolem as he I think continues his combi attack. At some point, Lance, at roughly 150 total health, breaks the feet I think of Tolem, causing him slowdown. After this, Lance seemingly fumbled, picking up an HG shotgun and dropping it after whacking Tolem with it, or some such. I think Benedict started attacking Tolem too? During this fight, things get a bit fuzzy in my recollection. After all this, Krah-Tolem seemingly fumbles too, hitting Benedict with a picked up HG.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...54/unknown.png

    A bit after this, he cloaks, and fires an HPC at Lance and Benedict?, before retreating, which also happened to stun a Predator observer. Note that I'm not sure what Benedict was doing at this junction, or how much health everyone had, so the disengage might be reasonable or a bit cowardly.

    https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...96/unknown.png

    Kael224/(Krah'Tolem) shot BIgboyyo/(Benedict) with a plasma eradication sphere in the Engineering. = null

    (If you squint at this you might say it's staff leaks, but I only looked at the VV logs because I have attack logs turned off in preferences to reduce lag. This is basically just confirming something I already saw)

    After this, there is some conversation in LOOC at what the hell just happened, basically everyone is just confused, even the 2 observing predators. Lance and Benedict head to planetside Med-dome to get surgery for the bone breaks, and afterwards Lance ontinues looking around for preds to kill.
    He finds Tolem and they have a little bout, after being severely wounded Tolem cloaks and retreats, inside the vine block west of nexus road. Lance finds him, Tolem throws a smartdisc and then shoves Lance, who stays stunned on the ground as the smartdisc slices into him.

    After some unimportant action, Tolem is caught out by Lance and another marine, both armed with pulse rifles. He cloaks to attempt to disengage, but is too slow from broken bones. Cloaked, he hits Lance, probably out of panic, and then inmediately presses his SD, dying a second afterwards. I think this is not that big of a deal personally, guy was just not thinking straight and resorting to muscle memory which may be why he inmediately SDed afterwards, but it's still worth noting.

    This is just... really weird and strange predator gameplay, from what I know of Predators. He intentionally stays outside of melee range, throws smartdiscs and combistick...
    In my opinion, I agree with Lance, this seems to really just make absolutely no sense with how Predators are supposed to act in a round against honorable prey. If I was on a rare predator fighting mood as private and was kited by a combistick while trying to fight, I would be heavily frustrated and disencouraged from interacting with predators in any matter from that point on.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BIgboyyo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carlarc View Post

    Lance is healed back, with probably more than one fracture, and continues the fight, with a bayonet, hitting Tolem as he I think continues his combi attack. At some point, Lance, at roughly 150 total health, breaks the feet I think of Tolem, causing him slowdown. After this, Lance seemingly fumbled, picking up an HG shotgun and dropping it after whacking Tolem with it, or some such. I think Benedict started attacking Tolem too?
    At the time I was kinda confused on how synth guidelines would factor into this but Lance said it would be fine to attack so I attacked a bit to get the predator off him
    Nathon Stafford-Sunglasses wearing Delta L42 kiter man. Sometimes a Captain.
    Benedict-Praiser of Jesus, healer of marines, killer of Queens.
    Kahn'Ikesh-Blooded Hunter and great grandson of Gor'don Ram-sey
    (pfp by Manezinho)
    medals:https://pastebin.com/xiCJLuhz
    Mapper since 12/29/2020
    Had dev role assasinated on 8/2/21


    Synth Councilor as of 2/5/21 along with Jakk, Frogzeke, Yukonsnow, and Flpls
    DM what#3954 for help with Synth Applications

  10. #10
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    "Let me preface this. While there are honor code violations (Several), the main point of this report isn't about the violations of the honor code but rather the violation of the spirit of the whitelist. Predators are supposed to be an RP role, and players are given these tools with the thought in mind that they will have the common sense to show self restraint. Unfortunately, all of this was thrown out of the window."

    Literally you PBed me with 2 shotguns as soon as I had my chatbox open.So please refrain from using the RP card on me while you don't even respect the talk icon who indicate that i'm not combat-ready.

    "I was a survivor on LV, we were held up at engineering. I decide to shoot the predators due to their presence near our base being an issue. (I'd rather not have xenos attracted to us because we've got 3 predators stationed outside watching). The predator runs away, immediately throwing two smartdisks at me while i'm alone and attempting to kite me with a combi stick while i'm using shotguns. The main issue here is the use of several smartdisks on one lone target. Smartdisks are a tool that was designed for group combat. They have an automated AI that takes all human error out of the equation of fighting a target. Even if you manage to "Kill" one of these simple mobs before it reaches you, the tick death will still give it a chance to hit you. Thankfully, I was prepared and managed to "kill" them while the predator ran away. "

    The smart disk has no exclusive nor the combat stick throw. After I left you in crit I stopped, since I was after my disks. It took me 10 mins to realize the syn had the disk and not you but in that time you never stopped to stand up and try to PB me with shotguns. Then instead of attacking the Syn, I asked for the disk, while I had the chat box icon open, again, you attacked me and attempted to kill me with a fire axe.

    "I took the smartdisks with us into engineering as I didn't want them to be spam thrown at us constantly. The predator in question after several confrontations runs inside engineering. I decide to use my bootknife in this case to fight him. I stab the predator atleast 20 times, before they start trying to kite me using a combi stick. Again, this isn't a violation of the honor code. This is just pissing on the spirit of the whitelist. The predator player couldn't fight properly in melee combat, against a simple boot knife and instead tried to run 7 tiles away and kite me using their ranged options, which were not designed for situations like this, but rather fighting in groups. Eventually, I bleed out from like 2 or 3 hits that hit me from the ranged weaponry. "

    Yes is true, you used a boot knife, and as I said there is nothing that stops me from using the comb stick after you used the shotgun on me.If anything you throwing away your shotgun and using the boot knife (While knowing the HC) made you dishonorable "Any human that throws their weapon to avoid fighting a Yautja" since one of the reqs for being worthy is "Is able to actively fight back against the Yautja. E.g. Marine has ranged weapons (Holstered or wielded) to fight back with/For Xenos, not injured and able to fight in the moment. (This includes any melee weapons longer than a knife)" I would even dare to say that you metagamed the HC.

    "Fast forward far later into the round, I walk in on the same predator killing another marine once again using several smartdisks against a lone target. I start shooting them to make them leave, and they cloak. Suddenly, the predator starts throwing smartdisks at me in cloak. Additionally, the predator had two primary weapons, the other being a recovered glaive. It's against the honor code to have a second primary unless you are recovering it. The predator had several times throughout the entire round to drop off the glaive, but never did. Anyways, the predator tries to drag off the marine that they killed. (By they I mean their smartdisks that require 0 human effort). After a long chase around the corners of the map I manage to save the marine."

    Never used smart disk while cloaked and you can go to the logs. I even turn off one of my smart disks while I was about to throw it while invisible to specifically avoid that. About the Glaive , while I can't find anything in the HC that prevents me to have two or more primary weapons I never used it and you can check the logs on that as well.And I was dragging that marine to check if he had pred gear since I was trying to recover pred gear as my main objective , because we were told to don't go to the almayer under any circumstance.Also , again you can check the logs , was going to ask him for the gear but he engaged combat first.

    "Fast fast forward, i'm patrolling the roads again, and run into the same marine from earlier fighting the same predator. The predator runs into the jungle, which I follow. Immediately, they start trying to once again abuse the mechanics of the smartdisks. They threw two smartdisks on me, then start spam shoving me over. This is once again, violating the spirit of the whitelist. There's no "rules" that say that you obviously shouldn't tackle spam someone while there are smartdisks ontop of them. Thankfully, the other marine managed to chase them off, and I got out of the situation with only massive brute. "

    -violating the spirit of the whitelist- there is no such thing as WL spirit, is like if I complain about you that you were using a double shotgun to PB me. We all have tools and rules, there is no rule that stops me from using the disk as I use them. I also, never disarmed someone to let the smart disk do the job, you can check the logs on that.
    "
    We begin to chase the predator to LZ2, where they cloak, and almost unsurprisingly start hitting one of us while cloaked. We shoot them, they uncloak, and trigger SD."

    This is true , I did hit you once while trying to SD and it was a panic attack.I even reported an SS with the logs to the council before you posted this.

    In resume, you are just screaming that how I play with my pred is not how you would like it played , The only rule I broke was the 1 hit while trying to SD and I was invisible.This is just like if scream at you for chessing the fights with double shotguns and abusing the HC knoweldge.

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