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Thread: Realistic counter against boilers

  1. #1
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    Realistic counter against boilers

    Happens rarely, but when ever it happens, breaks the game. In some rounds we have 4-5 boilers at the same time. It is literally impossible to counter them.

    'jUSt uSe cAS' you say. Yeah sure. Since they implemented directional warnings, CAS, OB and mortar deaths are down by 50% at least or more. At this point all xenos know to disable combat text so skyfires won't get spammed away. But now with this new update, only a few XXs get blasted to shreds and nothing else. I'm saying this form experience. I also used to die to silent OB due to the bug that it was simply mute (still occurs) or from the fact that I was running in too fast from off-screen and I didn't get the chat massage that skyfire ins inbound.

    But since the update, as a xeno It's WAAAAAY too easy to dodge any skyfire. Especially as a boiler as you have all the time you need to move as you are not distracted by meleeing. The only way I used to die as a boiler as I had to guess which direction will the OB fall, sometimes I was wrong and I got hit. But since the huge nerf, I have all the time and more to move.

    Now when there are so many boilers, that is a guarantee that they will bunch up, so scout will be in trouble if it even attempts to kill one as he can only pick up solo T1s maybe a solo hivelord or carrier.

    So that leaves with an inci sniper that is decent at harassing, but not much more. Soon as we have a drone on hivelord on sight, sniper is useless.

    I played both with and against 3-5 boilers and I'm telling you, it can not be countered if xenos have more than 10 IQ. When Hydro gets gassed by 4 boilers, you can simply not push out, as you will die imiidately from fire (or you know...the warriors and spitters waiting for you with the boilers). You simply can't repair cades as they will slowly melt. Any attempt to even get close will get you instakilled. Only 2 gas boilers can lock down an entire cadeline, but 3 or 4 can even lock down the entire hydro. And with what downside? Literally zero risk.

    I think this is one of those things where people play in theory and say things like just do this or try this. But it does not work. As soon as xenos have 4 boilers, the round is over. And the other 15 combat xenos are still there waiting for the few brave ones to try run out for a flank. Not that it even matters as good luck running through a 10*10 field of gas that will be spammed at you while the other 15 xenos shred you.

    Solution? No solution. I would say cap out max boilers at 2. But we know CM will never do that. Luckily the strongest T3 in the game is the most boring to play so this rarely happens. But when it does...I just ghost and watch as they win. Literally no point finishing the round.

  2. #2
    Dev Team Manager Stan_albatross's Avatar
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    as synth I can out-repair boilers pretty easily unless there are literally four hitting the same line
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stan_albatross View Post
    as synth I can out-repair boilers pretty easily unless there are literally four hitting the same line
    Again on paper sounds good, in 'real life' it never happens. It assumes in the first place we have a synth. It also assumes we have a front line synth at the right place at the right time, willing to repair cades and has the means to do so. It also assumes there are no spitters or praes in the gas...which they are as they LOVE hiding in the gas and pull off a few free shots as nobody will shoot at them.

    This is what I meant. On paper I can think of 20 solution which should work. But during real gameplay? They simply don't work.

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    Member Atomic Galaxy's Avatar
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    boilers have shit health. a few PBs from buckshot could probably kill one
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atomic Galaxy View Post
    boilers have shit health. a few PBs from buckshot could probably kill one
    It's almost like you have not read my post. Like I've said in theory sounds good. In reality IT DOES NOT WORK. Not even sure if you are trolling at this point, but I will assume you just new to the game and have theories in your mind but never actually faced this situation in game, so let me paint the picture for you:

    You and 10 other marines are holding hydro. Suddenly 1 boiler gasses the north side. Well good luck running out, you will die.

    - Just wait until gas fades and run out while boiler is on CD - you say.

    Sure..but oh wait, there was only 1 sec break between gasses as there are TWO boilers. By the time second gas comes down, first comes up again.

    - So try to time it when they make a mistake with the timing and tush them - you say.

    Sure. Now we have 3 boilers, one is a trapper, soon as you run out, it traps you, you can't move, now he spit acid on you and you are in gas from the first boiler. Maybe it's a third gas boiler, well tough luck, he won't even target the north cades, he will just target the middle of hydro with docs and dyeing marines. What now chief?

    - Okay so we can't charge them straight I get it, just take a team of PBs and flank them from west medical. - you say.

    Sure...boss how about that 15 other xenos waiting for your 8 marines to rush out with no cades and also don't forget 3 boilers are holding hydro...I still got 2 boilers for you to lock your little rush down.

    So "just PB them" at this point sounds like "just solo PB a Queen. Yeah...like..no. Aside from the screech and neurospam...no. You can't do that. I suggest playing a few more month and see yourself how OP they are.

    I suspect you never played boiler by the way. You can't "PB" a boiler. They have 2x dark vision. By the time you think you should find a xeno to kill, they already spotted you and retreated behind other xenos. You never going to BP a boiler.

    Next.

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    Senior Member Me_Bigsnail's Avatar
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    Abuse the shitter with CAS or a good OB, pray that they dont sit in caves (if they do, then good luck pushing past that) most maps are outdated so 90% of gameplay evolves into cave chokepoint, its cancer and unfun if there's more than 2 boilers in the same spot, and yes flanks exist but marines are braindead so they'll just contest the choke anyway
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    Member Atomic Galaxy's Avatar
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    i am a elder queen and i have XO timelock unlocked and have been playing since BEFORE timelocks and have SEEN boilers die to buckshot PBs. trust me you gotta factor in intelligence. marines may be braindead but so are xenos too. like boilers will frontline and see a guy surrounded by xenos and think "oh thats easy i'll just go body block him" dead by PB
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    TL;DR - Absolutely perfectly coordinated stike has 50% success ratio, and assumes ideal briliance of marines, command, mortarmen, spotters and CAS, and lack of pre-bombed and pre-trapped areas.

    Problem is, the solutions that would work on ground will never happen aganist so big of a spam of boilers. Two mortars? HAH. I rarely see a mortar anywhere close to frontline, and even FOB mortars sit un-used most of time. So two or more mortars are out. Factor in the cost from REQ.

    If not mortars, maybe cas? As you mentioned, warning about artilerry and CAS runs. THEORETICALLY you could coordinate mortar to fire 15 back behind xenos, and CAS slightly behind xenos. But no matter how you slice the cake, there is always [ 9 - amount of mortars/CAS ] directions to run. Even with rolling the dice, if they get and witness the warning, you have between 11 and 22% that xeno will run in wrong direction.

    EVEN IF we assume the frontline is so stacked they cannot even approach the wall of lead, that cuts out three ways of escape, from nine total. Add two more for comboed CAS-Mortar. You still have 4 ways to run as xeno. There is almost no places you can narrow escape routes further. You cannot mortar into caves, and any non-caves become open ground after any heavier engagements.

    Also also. Anti-Artillery node.

    Yes, nine. It is immensely stupid and counterintuitive, but you can risk sitting still.

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    op how long have you been playing the game please answer

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    I mean, OP has a point even he articulates it poorly.

    Boilers are much more difficult to combat, as they rely on either CAS which doesn't exist often in low/medium pops , and they have limited ammo. OBs which are also limited on JTAC being available (another low pop issue and long round issue) and has limited ammo. Mortar relies on Engineers which are too busy scrambling to make defences in the rush meta (although a merge request to allow mini engineers to use mortar looks promising) relies ARES generally for ammo or mercy from Cargo.

    The only real counter for the boiler is marines somehow reaching this ranged enemy which usually protected by the xemomorph masses, with structures and slowing weeds, or buying time with an L42 spamming it until you eventually run out of L42 ammo. (A slower fire rate and more damage may make it more viable, as right now it's a support tool)

    That's my two cents anyway, I just think Queen is easier to counter than the boilers.
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