CMP Should Probably Be Whitelisted

[Snooper44]

Breaking news

White Council Member who's part of the problem doesn't see a problem with the whitelist.

You have failed to list any real problem. I have no idea what you are talking about. Whitelists when you were around before councils were not different in any aspect. People gave a +1 and then staff said 'well a lot of people like them, so guess we will give them CO'. You are also ignoring how you quite literally gave specific COs a pass with LRP actions because they were 'well known'. So frankly your words have lost their weight.

I agree with you on the state of roleplay with the server. However, the accusations you are throwing towards COs now no longer hold truth as the WL has undergone reforms. The council holds no bias, I know I don't hold bias. If someone is acting like a shittler CO they are dealt with. I have received quite a lot of flak for how I believe COs should be held to a higher standard as the WL should set an example for how marines should be RPing.

[Fewher]

I agree with you on the state of roleplay with the server. However, the accusations you are throwing towards COs now no longer hold truth as the WL has undergone reforms. The council holds no bias, I know I don't hold bias. If someone is acting like a shittler CO they are dealt with. I have received quite a lot of flak for how I believe COs should be held to a higher standard as the WL should set an example for how marines should be RPing.

What do you think of the photo I attached of a whitelisted person openly stated they're LRP and openly mocking his whitelist position?

[CABAL]

Just face the facts: Standard SS13 servers don't have any whitelist, any rando guy with enough of a playtime to pass timelock can become captain, HoP, HoS, Borg, or AI and I would argue that especially the last two ones are on par with gameplay challenge to play with restraint that Synthetic Law is.

Fricking Queen is a living proof that you don't need whitelist to have OOC competent enough people to play an important role. How many times did Queen players happened to be intentionally grieffing? I don't mean being unrobust and dying, because Queen was set to "YES" for some reason back in the past, I mean actuall grieffing.
Very minor.
Whitelist is just a grieffing shield for current round.
Lets imagine that CM gets classic borg role added and that borg violates its lawset. Admemes can't do shit, because thats whitelist problem.

If other servers can have unwhitelisted borgs, captains and such, whitelists are not needed to anything, but to gatekeep the role.

[Fewher]

Just face the facts: Standard SS13 servers don't have any whitelist, any rando guy with enough of a playtime to pass timelock can become captain, HoP, HoS, Borg, or AI and I would argue that especially the last two ones are on par with gameplay challenge to play with restraint that Synthetic Law is.

I absolutely think Whitelist are better than time-gates or any timeplay locks possible.

However charging the community to self-police, gate-keep and discipline themselves is not the solution and never has been.
Amplify this with 3 different whitelist councils, 3 different versions of whitelist rules, 3 different levels of enforcement, 3 different opinions/views and you're in for 3 different nightmares to manage for staff.

Consolidate, control it under staff where it's easier to mandate and centralize it to a small team of vetted staff who at the very least should serve more loyalty to the game than their in-game friends.

[Snooper44]

What do you think of the photo I attached of a whitelisted person openly stated they're LRP and openly mocking his whitelist position?

I think and hope it is just the CO in question trolling on discord. The only reason I am doubting he is serious about it is because he is one of many COs who is partaking in CO lore I am writing about. Does the image in question come from the whitelist help channel, if so then it is an issue that will have to be looked into.

The CO role is for roleplay and setting a standard for roleplay. If you want to combat and lead from the start of the operation, in my eyes. Then you should be doing as so as an XO/SO/SL after receiving permission from the CO to deploy. The Commanding Officer should be establishing the setting for the vessel. If they are firm and embrace the military atmosphere and lore then those below will follow. If they are memes and ignore any aspect of the chain of command or lore, then again those below them will do the same.

[Fewher]

I think and hope it is just the CO in question trolling on discord. The only reason I am doubting he is serious about it is because he is one of many COs who is partaking in CO lore I am writing about. Does the image in question come from the whitelist help channel, if so then it is an issue that will have to be looked into.

The CO role is for roleplay and setting a standard for roleplay. If you want to combat and lead from the start of the operation, in my eyes. Then you should be doing as so as an XO/SO/SL after receiving permission from the CO to deploy. The Commanding Officer should be establishing the setting for the vessel. If they are firm and embrace the military atmosphere and lore then those below will follow. If they are memes and ignore any aspect of the chain of command or lore, then again those below them will do the same.

Those are the foundational principles I wrote and set for the Whitelist years ago.
I apologize, you aren't part of the problem but rather a solution.

[Stan_albatross]

Just face the facts: Standard SS13 servers don't have any whitelist, any rando guy with enough of a playtime to pass timelock can become captain, HoP, HoS, Borg, or AI and I would argue that especially the last two ones are on par with gameplay challenge to play with restraint that Synthetic Law is.

Fricking Queen is a living proof that you don't need whitelist to have OOC competent enough people to play an important role. How many times did Queen players happened to be intentionally grieffing? I don't mean being unrobust and dying, because Queen was set to "YES" for some reason back in the past, I mean actuall grieffing.
Very minor.
Whitelist is just a grieffing shield for current round.
Lets imagine that CM gets classic borg role added and that borg violates its lawset. Admemes can't do shit, because thats whitelist problem.

If other servers can have unwhitelisted borgs, captains and such, whitelists are not needed to anything, but to gatekeep the role.

HoS on goonstation is whitelisted

[ThesoldierLLJK]

Consolidate, control it under staff where it's easier to mandate and centralize it to a small team of vetted staff who at the very least should serve more loyalty to the game than their in-game friends.

Years ago I wanted this, but Emerald had this "ALL WHITELIST SANCTIONS MUST GO THROUGH REPORTS ONLY" and then "COUNCIL DECIDES JUDGEMENT ONLY" and the philosophy just stuck that even our veteran admins and senior admins just don't wanna touch whitelist issues.

It's a little too late to reinvent the wheel, but I'll say in the past 2 years of working with councils, I think it's a fair system. Most WL players would rather be judged by their peers, than a moderator or admin, or even worse me. Never seen a whitelist council show favoritism "its my friend" even councils who feel there is a conflict will stay neutral or abstain 99 percent of the time.

[Snooper44]

Those are the foundational principles I wrote and set for the Whitelist years ago.
I apologize, you aren't part of the problem but rather a solution.

I appreciate it. Do know I have nothing against how you staffed CM-13. I understand CM-13 back then was different, especially in regards to Bill Carson. He was in a way a icon to many after-all as he is still referenced to this day. You have no doubt made many compelling arguments to the state of CM-13 how it currently exists.

In regards to the community outside the realm of whitelists, lore is a fundamental aspect of the community that has been disregarded over the favoring of TDM mechanics. I would never tell the devs what to do and what not to do, it is not my job and I do not know code like they do. However, when marines do not even know anything outside of 'shoot xenos', not the name of their battalion, the name of the sector they serve in, or even a setting of the world around them in any aspect there is no room to grow a character and people are doomed to just be PFC Jim Bald and shoot xenos repeatedly every round until they stagnate and grow bored and want more TDM mechanics to play with.

I desire to reach beyond so they may play rounds and have an actual sense of a larger world. So they can actually discuss with other marines about their characters and military histories outside the realm of their metacomm discords to stomp xenos and maybe even feel inclined to write dossiers like many people used to. I urge you to stop by the lore channel in discord if you ever have the time and wish to contribute.

[ThesoldierLLJK]

ngl I wanted to take bancrose out back and shoot him and replace him with snooper as WL maintainer at one point, and make him the dude in charge but our other managers feel the role is basically obsolete now because they can handle everything if the admins in charge of WL cannot.