If you are 1on1 with a lurker and got ambushed you should die. The end. Lurker aint gonna drag you off while 3 others guys are shooting him.Originally Posted by Kineem
If you are 1on1 with a lurker and got ambushed you should die. The end. Lurker aint gonna drag you off while 3 others guys are shooting him.
i'd rather not just die for the amusement of some other dude because 'i'm meant to die, i'm a marine'
if you're 1 on 1 with a terrible player, then he should die regardless of what he's playing. if he cannot click a stationary marine underneath his own sprite then he should get his ass handed to him
lurkers can very easily drag people off if they're full health, and you even see it happening now to people at the frontlines despite the self-inflicted stun. dragging people just a few tiles away is usually enough to ensure a marine's death if you're at the frontline because other xenos will just walk up and start helping you chainstun or kill them with their own abilities. if lurkers lost their movement delay after a pounce, it would be far easier for lurkers to cheese marines and pull them off the frontlines.
Imagine a spitter neurostunning somebody, running over and then grabbing and dragging them away, except the lurker moves faster, drags faster, slashes faster, deals more damage, tanks more, and doesn't need to close the gap to grab the marine.
the only situation in which pouncestunning isn't feasible now is typically when the lurker is low health or has no support whatsoever and he is vastly outnumbered, and at that point he's just bad if he tries to pounce a four man team or he is bad because he got outmaneuvered as a xenomorph with inherently better maneuverability.
Everything you said isn't a lurker dragging you off infront of a bunch of marines. Its a whole group of xenos working as a team to get you. Ya that would be so terribly OP.
Does anyone even know if you can grab someone after pouncing? Is it on the same delay as the attack delay after pouncing? I wouldn't be surprised in which case your entire argument is completely moot. If its not it could be easily put on the same delay.
edit: as far as the first part YOU are the terrible player if you got caught 1on1 by a lurker. You got out of position and got punished. If the other play is truly a terrible lurker they will miss their pounce and or mess up some other way and die anyways.
Last edited by MasterShakeEZ; 02-06-2019 at 10:38 AM.
I have question regarding this upgrade. I don't know if it is me, or something, but pumping shootie seems to have a delay. Like I can mash macro, but it won't allow me untill certain point in time. Before (with delays) it wasn't a problem.
They've added in a new system to prevent pumping if there's already a shot loaded in. Are you sure that's that ?
Pump delay was always on empty shotguns as a replacement to firerate
If I understood you correctly
If I could, I'd record my own lurker gameplay just so that everyone can see that wield delat removal doesnt affect them alot. Just don't stand still slashing a dude so that just presses E and clicks you and you should be fine.
Nope. I meant just shooting and pumping after shoot. Before update I could click space just after shoot and it pumped, becouse pumping had different delay. Now they are like in relation with eachother. Like you can't pump immediately after shooting, you have to wait a bit.
After the first couple times someone with shotgun+AG+MH instantly whips out the gun and nails you as a lurker, you learn to create distance right around when the stun wears off.
It doesn't matter much, because when the stun wears off you can immediately pounce them again. It costs you maybe 2 or 3 slashes.
Anything with enough range to hit you at 4+ tiles doesn't do enough damage to actually threaten you either. A full M41 burst will chunk your hp, but you have the speed to either make a pounce and still run if it fails, or just run. As is the case in almost all situations with xenos, the only reason you die is because you made huge a mistake.
No movement by far, but it's actually a good thing, and could frankly be increased by another 100-200ms. That pounce delay is the only thing that lets marines punish a lurker with its current movement speed and hitpoints - and it might even be worth applying anytime the lurker pounces, not just when it pounces a marine.
There's a few ways you can balance out the lurker, and what you change really depends on how you want it to play out. If you want lurkers to stay as fast and tanky as they are now, then you need to introduce mechanics that punish them for over-extension/fucking up, which the pounce movement delay does. If you reduce the speed and HP of the lurker, then a larger pounce delay isn't needed. If lurkers enter runner HP or less territory and do less damage, then very little/no delay similar to the runner is warranted.
Personally, I think lurker is the quintessential xeno. It is everything the xenos are in the movies and is by far my favourite xeno to play. I love the combination of stealth, damage, and speed. With that said, I would still make a few changes to the lurker:
1. Reduce the movement speed. It really shouldn't be as fast as a runner. This isn't a problem at young, arguable at mature, but elder/ancient + frenzy + mutators is too fast. You're never in serious danger being able to move that fast.
2. Increase pounce delay by 100ms-200ms to force a commitment to a pounce. No more (or at least, it'll be riskier) pounce-and-run (Which I've often used to take on 3-4 marines at once)
3. Consider adding the pounce delay to all pounces, including those not hitting a mob. Pounce increases the overall speed of the runner and lurker; this means that not only are they being used to GTFO of a bad situation, but also to decrease travel time from A to B which is effectively a speed buff on top of already moving extremely fast. With a pounce delay on all pounces regardless of target, you remove their use as a speed tool, and force lurkers to carefully consider their pounce/overextensions.
The general effect of the above changes should force lurkers to do more lurking and ambushing and less one-xeno-army ramboing. If a lurker misses his pounce on a marine, that lurker deserves being punished for it - and that's simply not the case right now.
In general the more you can make combat about maneuver and positioning for a kill, rather than the shooting/clawing itself, the more satisfying the combat becomes. I don't mind a lurker savaging a marine when it gets on top of one, but it likewise needs to be savaged by a marine when caught flat footed itself, and the only real way of doing that right now is a lucky stun.
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