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Thread: Current meta is not great.

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix it again Tony View Post
    You mean like yesterday when a mute/no warning fatty literally killed 6 xenos?...yeah that was fun...
    hiting pylon with every FM and seeing xenos dodge every direct is realy fun too
    I do not need CAS to be able to kill xenos with ease but I want it to have any reason to be in game

    but CAS is just an examply od development go wrong
    this thread is not only about CAS

  2. #62
    Member Kot's Avatar
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    you are delusional
    Malcolm Grimes - The USCM's 7th greatest equalizer.

    in forced (temporary) retirement =]

  3. #63
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    I, for example, think that OB should be really a barebone "make benos evacuate the area" weapon. Nothing but literally AFK benos should be killed by lone OB (parentheses on Lone). Thats one thing. OB should be able to hit literally any tile with full effect, no matter how deep in caves it is. By that I mean super, super obvious OB, even boiler gas - tier warning.

    On the other hand we would have Mortar that is weak, but should be allowed to freely shoot at things without much warning (short sound, brief chat message about the direction maybe) and thats it. However Mortar should be fairly innacurate, as real Mortars are, but have better fire rate (or more mortars for marines, but weaker).

    And then CAS that would be in the middle. OB/Mortar mix. Fatties would work like OB, but a bit faster and a bit less obvious and then minirockets acting like Mortar. Laser and GAU should be something unique.

    Remove pylons keeping benos safe from them. Only Hive Core should do that (but still be vulnerable to OB). Destruction of Hive Core should also give benos some big disadventage, so they won't get the funny idea of moving Hive Core everytime frontline moves by 1 tile.

    Thanks to theoretically stripping OB/CAS/Mortar from their depth, this would make the whole gameplay better and ironically - Deeper. Use CAS to scare benos off some location, use Mortars to block escape path, use OB to kill benos blocked by CAS and Mortars.
    Bang! To pull this off you had to use your brain.
    Or just simply use CAS and Mortars to soften benos up, or scare some boiler away.
    REDEMPTION

  4. #64
    Whitelisted Predator MattAtlas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CABAL View Post
    I, for example, think that OB should be really a barebone "make benos evacuate the area" weapon. Nothing but literally AFK benos should be killed by lone OB (parentheses on Lone). Thats one thing. OB should be able to hit literally any tile with full effect, no matter how deep in caves it is. By that I mean super, super obvious OB, even boiler gas - tier warning.

    On the other hand we would have Mortar that is weak, but should be allowed to freely shoot at things without much warning (short sound, brief chat message about the direction maybe) and thats it. However Mortar should be fairly innacurate, as real Mortars are, but have better fire rate (or more mortars for marines, but weaker).

    And then CAS that would be in the middle. OB/Mortar mix. Fatties would work like OB, but a bit faster and a bit less obvious and then minirockets acting like Mortar. Laser and GAU should be something unique.

    Remove pylons keeping benos safe from them. Only Hive Core should do that (but still be vulnerable to OB). Destruction of Hive Core should also give benos some big disadventage, so they won't get the funny idea of moving Hive Core everytime frontline moves by 1 tile.

    Thanks to theoretically stripping OB/CAS/Mortar from their depth, this would make the whole gameplay better and ironically - Deeper. Use CAS to scare benos off some location, use Mortars to block escape path, use OB to kill benos blocked by CAS and Mortars.
    Bang! To pull this off you had to use your brain.
    Or just simply use CAS and Mortars to soften benos up, or scare some boiler away.
    Stripping away the satisfaction coming from a mechanic is a surefire way to make it not fun to use. A lot of satisfaction and replayability in this game derives from killing the other side. A significant majority of people start to question the existance of mechanics if they can't derive fun from them.
    Resident ex-punished Junior Developer and Coder, and ex three-time member of the Yautja Council, two-time member of the Synth Council.

    See with your eyes, my army of flies, when no one's alive...

  5. #65
    Senior Member CABAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAtlas View Post
    Stripping away the satisfaction coming from a mechanic is a surefire way to make it not fun to use. A lot of satisfaction and replayability in this game derives from killing the other side. A significant majority of people start to question the existance of mechanics if they can't derive fun from them.
    Benos get any fun from dying to CAS/OB? As we can clearly read in the thread - No.

    OB involves Command and one guy who lases. Not much, Command isn't here to kill directly.
    CAS/Mortars would still "kill" and by that I mean deal damage that can't be as easly avoided as OB would be.

    Thanks to overall nerf to CAS/OB/Mortar, you could then nerf benos a bit, or buff PFCs. Who would be happy from PFC buff? PFCs, which is majority of CM playerbase. Who would be happy from CAS/OB/Mortar nerfs? Benos, which is second biggest majority of CM playerbase.
    Choosing between "fun" for one PO, CO, Engineer on Mortar and "fun" for every PFC, I can easly choose the second option.

    Pylons already make PO and Mortar Engineer unfun, way more than my proposed change.
    REDEMPTION

  6. #66
    Senior Member Stan_albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don View Post
    Lynuah calling people out for LRP while acting the same way any time they see a metabuddy
    something something mou monday
    Karl Karlsson, the man

    Maxwell, the clanker

    Enhath'vot Guan-Dha, the Maicer

    11/9/20 : synth
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    1/12/20 : synth council
    16/1/21 : freed from CM

    Synth gaming :

    Spoiler Spoiler:


    retired Synth councilman. Feel free to DM me on discord (or Optimisticdude, Yukonsnow, Jakkkk, and 50RemAndCounting) for synth questions.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAtlas View Post
    Stripping away the satisfaction coming from a mechanic is a surefire way to make it not fun to use. A lot of satisfaction and replayability in this game derives from killing the other side. A significant majority of people start to question the existance of mechanics if they can't derive fun from them.
    You know this is an interesting topic. I still remember fist time playing TGMC after looong time of playing CM. I took my gear, took a cool rifle started shooting an injured xeno..and I killed it. With...a rifle. A normal weapon. No with some extremely-optimized meta-gaming perfectly timed robust way...I just...shot it.

    Than it occurred to me how massive difference is between the 2 servers. I get that the goal is different. But when I empty 20 mags on a xenos and get 0 kills, that is also not fun. This is what happens when you just nerf and nerf and nerf and nerf.

    I would much rather give them extra larvas, extra cyro troops but actually be able to kill ANYTHING. Like a normal marine is totally not even expected to get even 1 kill in 5 rounds it's that bad.

    The ones getting the actual kills are 1) robust veterans who know how to optimize weapons to min-max and good at the game, 2) meta-gaming tards (like me) who only get kills because we learned how to abuse the game and kill inexperienced xenos who don't know how you can hide an OT max-cap remote detonated things under stuff and 3) specs, SGs, skyfires.

    Basically 90% of marines will kill 10% of xenos and 10% of marines will kill 90% of xenos...which in my mind is not fun. I would much rather have everybody way more squashier than now. But I'm not dev. For now, I just take granted as a xeno that I'm immortal, unless that 10% comes along and completely ignore all bullets and I don't even play as PFC any more as you can't kill anything with the base weapons.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix it again Tony View Post
    Basically 90% of marines will kill 10% of xenos and 10% of marines will kill 90% of xenos...which in my mind is not fun. I would much rather have everybody way more squashier than now. But I'm not dev. For now, I just take granted as a xeno that I'm immortal, unless that 10% comes along and completely ignore all bullets and I don't even play as PFC any more as you can't kill anything with the base weapons.
    As a marine who gets kills you can A) use the shotgun B) not get kills

    I like this server and I like experimenting with loudouts but if i cant get my super optimized m4a1 / flamer build im taking the fucking shotgun. I feel like if we could just vend whatever attatchments we wanted and didnt have to rely on SLs doing their job or req it would be alot more fun to experiment with different loadouts and kits.
    Felicity Bringh

  9. #69
    Senior Member Outcast Seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattAtlas View Post
    Stripping away the satisfaction coming from a mechanic is a surefire way to make it not fun to use. A lot of satisfaction and replayability in this game derives from killing the other side. A significant majority of people start to question the existance of mechanics if they can't derive fun from them.
    Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

    What initially drew me in to SS13 is the depth of mechanics. On most servers with enough time and effort you can achieve ludicrous results, whether it be helping others or with combat. Discovering and making a super-virus that saves lives, or being the random civilian that manages to save the station by tripping a syndicate operator feels amazing. Yet CM seems to have stripped away the depth of combat and support roles.

    The neutering of mortars, CAS, OTs, and engineers feels like the game is saying "the only way a xeno should die is if 5-10 marines are simultaneously shooting it" and "nothing should interfere with a xeno assault except for a bunch of marines shooting bullets." This feels like shit. I certainly want xenos to be capable of fighting and beating marines, but I want to be able to have fun while it happens. To me CM currently feels very "high effort, low reward." I play games to have fun, not to get tired and bored.

    I hope tech-webs adds back some depth to the combat, but I fear that roles like engineering and medical are doomed to suffer.
    Luca Jagemann, the cynical colonial with the prescription glasses.

    Ancient Synth Williams, on another rescue mission in Brazil.

  10. #70
    Whitelisted Predator MattAtlas's Avatar
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    I don't really think tech-webs will fix the problems we face. They feel like a bandaid path rather than a comprehensive fix.

    Something else I've noticed is that rounds feel hollow because the RP just isn't there. No, I'm not talking about paragraphs and paragraphs of /me text or whatever - I'm talking about the little things, the interactions between characters, in-character squad banter. All of these were stripped away because of the game's diluition into little more than a TDM shooter on a shitty engine, leading to a situation where you deploy -> kill or die. Over and over again, with no round story or interactions to look forward. The fault here lies with both staff and dev, and I will entirely concede I haphazardly started this trend myself with the 50/50 winrates I ardently advocated for as a dev and squad req, which I consider to be good for gameplay but bad for roleplay. I should've foreseen these things.

    Focus needs to be reshifted towards lengthening rounds and allowing genuine IC RP to take place. For that, we unfortunately need timesinks. Places in-round where RP is derived because there's nothing else to do with that time. I've started to think of req lines as a necessary evil.

    Also permanesting is terrible.
    Resident ex-punished Junior Developer and Coder, and ex three-time member of the Yautja Council, two-time member of the Synth Council.

    See with your eyes, my army of flies, when no one's alive...

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