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Thread: Current meta is not great.

  1. #51
    Member Kot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ban View Post
    how more can you eaven nerf CAS and mortar?
    um. apart from the obvious? remove them sweaty
    Malcolm Grimes - The USCM's 7th greatest equalizer.

    in forced (temporary) retirement =]

  2. #52
    Member Bob_Vancleave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kot View Post
    um. apart from the obvious? remove them sweaty
    oh my god its grimes!!! da grimes!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #53
    Whitelisted Predator
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50RemAndCounting View Post
    Literally whenever I look at this section of the forum it's just people who stopped playing the game going on constant unhinged rants lol
    My friend, help me out and describe to me which one of our concerns and or complaints could be considered "unhinged".

  4. #54
    Senior Member Outcast Seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50RemAndCounting View Post
    Literally whenever I look at this section of the forum it's just people who stopped playing the game going on constant unhinged rants lol
    How diplomatic of you.
    Luca Jagemann, the cynical colonial with the prescription glasses.

    Ancient Synth Williams, on another rescue mission in Brazil.

  5. #55
    Commanding Officer Council Member FGRSentinel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kot View Post
    on a more serious note: I think if CAS and mortars were nerfed/removed and OBs turned into beacon-only "abilities", and barricades had reduced durability, xeno powercreep could be toned down a lot, which would in turn slow down the game slightly and allow for more individual brightness popping up instead of wave strategy being the norm for marines. (other than the same 4 "chads" some staff seem to have complained about carrying the team on their own).

    such a slight increase in round length and ability for the standard marine to feel competent would also give more more room for interpersonal interaction- not that it matters, seeing as nowadays the slightest form of camaraderie and joking beyond what is considered correct by a few people in staff is immediately culled as thoughtcrime.
    Beyond the fact that, as a PO, I have to strongly disagree with the idea of CAS being nerfed/removed, I feel the need to point out that, well... CAS almost didn't exist until the hangar change allowed POs to print ammo rather than rely on roundstart ammo. The reason being that CAS requires a lot more (relative) effort than just running at a Xeno than a shotgun. Mortars and OBs are up there as well. On the other hand, pylons have enabled competent hives to simply eliminate CAS and mortars from the equation with relatively minimal effort and the fire support warnings (most infamously the mortar one that used to show up in the chat log from far enough away that you could stand still and not see where the shell landed even if you got the warning) make it exceedingly easy avoid firemssions and mortar strikes unless you're simply ignoring the chat.

    This, of course, leaves only fatties as truly viable CAS weapons due to the fact that they can partially ignore pylons with the secondary blasts. Thankfully, CAS and pylons are being reworked, which (hopefully) should make other weapons more popular again.

    The CAS situation does, however, show an interesting proof of something that I feel needs to be addressed: it's very much possible to over-nerf something and, once you do, players will find whatever workaround they can to keep competitive. Once upon a time, Fatties were god-tier for CAS. Firemissions were added, GAU and minis became king due to GAU stun and minis' explosive damage. GAUs lost their stun, making them mostly useless, so people started using rocket pods for direct fire again. Then the explosive system was changed, making fatties and minis the preferred weapons for CAS. Finally, pylons were added and hard countered CAS, so people started printing 1-2 fatties since they could hit on the edge and hurt things at the pylon. Then the hangar was changed around, the roundstart ammo was removed, and about half (5000 out of about 9600) of the cost was added to the roundstart dropship fabricator point pool. What happened immediately after? CAS POs started to mass-produce fatties because they could now afford to print 10+ fatties at the start of a round if they felt like it.

    Like it or not, the current balance is at a point where people will use whatever they can to stay relevant. It doesn't matter if the Xenos like it. It doesn't matter if their fellow Marines like it. It doesn't even matter if they like it. If it kills Xenos and gets results, it will be used because, if it isn't, the only alternative is to sit there quietly and watch the Marines struggle. This isn't fun gameplay for anyone involved in most of the things Marines have to do to improve their chances, but it's what they have to do and it's more fun than losing outright.
    Last edited by FGRSentinel; 01-06-2021 at 02:31 AM.
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  6. #56
    Member Kot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FGRSentinel View Post
    a
    it's not about the effort cas and mortars take, but the effect they apply on the game. xenos have been buffed to be more resilient/have been given ways to work around CAS (related: I despise bigboyo's change, making LV caves fully open to fire support), which has inconvenienced groundside marines in multiple ways. T3s are very strong, hive weeds apply a crippling movement delay- only these two have turned marine doctrine into soviet murderball waves simply because it's the only consistently sustainable and effective strat. xenos in turn have to rely on good players (in general, a "normal" xeno player is more skilled than a "normal" marine player) or make murderballs of their own. this kills the crab, as they say- the "crab" being the chance of a casual player having a good time and feeling competent without joining a murderball.

    I suggested AT LEAST trying out returning OBs to beacon placed only. this wouldn't make xeno forts impregnable, but they'd still have a meaning- CAS and mortars would still be available during this test, supported by fire, grenades, the rocket launcher and marines using melee to take shit down as they go.

    I could elaborate on this even further but this is a pretty long rant already and it's not like devs read or care about forum whining. there are channels available to suggest/discuss ideas and their DMs are, I assume, open. nobody hates receiving feedback as long as it isn't "Hey retard! Why you nerf sentinel neuro?" tier.
    Malcolm Grimes - The USCM's 7th greatest equalizer.

    in forced (temporary) retirement =]

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by FGRSentinel View Post
    Beyond the fact that, as a PO, I have to strongly disagree with the idea of CAS being nerfed/removed, I feel the need to point out that, well... CAS almost didn't exist until the hangar change allowed POs to print ammo rather than rely on roundstart ammo. The reason being that CAS requires a lot more (relative) effort than just running at a Xeno than a shotgun. Mortars and OBs are up there as well. On the other hand, pylons have enabled competent hives to simply eliminate CAS and mortars from the equation with relatively minimal effort and the fire support warnings (most infamously the mortar one that used to show up in the chat log from far enough away that you could stand still and not see where the shell landed even if you got the warning) make it exceedingly easy avoid firemssions and mortar strikes unless you're simply ignoring the chat.

    This, of course, leaves only fatties as truly viable CAS weapons due to the fact that they can partially ignore pylons with the secondary blasts. Thankfully, CAS and pylons are being reworked, which (hopefully) should make other weapons more popular again.

    The CAS situation does, however, show an interesting proof of something that I feel needs to be addressed: it's very much possible to over-nerf something and, once you do, players will find whatever workaround they can to keep competitive. Once upon a time, Fatties were god-tier for CAS. Firemissions were added, GAU and minis became king due to GAU stun and minis' explosive damage. GAUs lost their stun, making them mostly useless, so people started using rocket pods for direct fire again. Then the explosive system was changed, making fatties and minis the preferred weapons for CAS. Finally, pylons were added and hard countered CAS, so people started printing 1-2 fatties since they could hit on the edge and hurt things at the pylon. Then the hangar was changed around, the roundstart ammo was removed, and about half (5000 out of about 9600) of the cost was added to the roundstart dropship fabricator point pool. What happened immediately after? CAS POs started to mass-produce fatties because they could now afford to print 10+ fatties at the start of a round if they felt like it.

    Like it or not, the current balance is at a point where people will use whatever they can to stay relevant. It doesn't matter if the Xenos like it. It doesn't matter if their fellow Marines like it. It doesn't even matter if they like it. If it kills Xenos and gets results, it will be used because, if it isn't, the only alternative is to sit there quietly and watch the Marines struggle. This isn't fun gameplay for anyone involved in most of the things Marines have to do to improve their chances, but it's what they have to do and it's more fun than losing outright.
    The evolution of CAS is quite a good example of what went wrong with the development. First CAS was used only to take some chokepoints and if you managed to kill xeno with it then it was play of the game. The devs decided it should be able to kill xenos so they give it FM and it was super nice and cool, CAS could kill xenos and take chokepoints way more effectivly. Then they seen OH NO the CAS is acauly killing xeno and taking ower every chokepoint we must stop that. It can not be used on push chokepoints now there are paylons everywhere... But pilots are still players who want to have impact on the round so they have to finde some way to do that- tons of tactical flares covering retreats with pilots droping fatty on xenos that are fallowing retreating marines. OH NO xenos are getting killed again in a way they can perfectly avoid and requires cooperation on the marine side. We must nerf the CAS again. And now you can hit only marines becouse xenos are better at dodging CAS then marines and you still can not take chokepoints.

    In the end after several nerfs that were aimed agains the core purpouse of CAS and it is now in weaker state then before FM update.

  8. #58
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    I feel like CAS is hard to balance. If you give xenos warning they just run in the opposite direction and it will never kill anything, if they have no real warning they complain about being randomly gibbed sometimes and that not being an engaging gameplay element.

    At the moment alot of CAS xeno deaths are due to bugs with sounds/warning/interactions with pylons/etc, because of the above problem.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Don's Avatar
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    Lynuah calling people out for LRP while acting the same way any time they see a metabuddy

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saytkl77 View Post
    At the moment alot of CAS xeno deaths are due to bugs with sounds/warning/interactions with pylons/etc, because of the above problem.
    You mean like yesterday when a mute/no warning fatty literally killed 6 xenos?...yeah that was fun...

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